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Old 03-12-2008, 01:09 PM   #1
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Any Bodymen? Need Rust Advice

Hi,

Have a Civic VX that had what I thought was just a small rust bubble in the classic Honda spot (rear 1/4 meets bumper). Turns out it's a bit more involved.

The couple of body shops I showed these pics to gave me rough estimates in the thousands. Can't make that happen.

Guess I should first state my goal which is : Rust arrest. Since this isn't a cosmetic area, I just want to prevent further spread of the cancer.

I realize there is probably the "right" way and the "hack" way to fix this but I doubt I have the finances or tools (let alone skill) to do this the "right" way.

So I guess I have 2 requests. 1) what *would* be the right way do deal with this?

and 2) opinions on my 'hack' approach which I'll describe now:
I was thinking of using naval jelly (rust conversion gel) to stabilize the cancer, riveting some supporting straps across the various sections, fiberglassing over the area or riveting sheet aluminum across the openings and then undercoating the snot out of all sides to seal it off from further decay.

Pros? Cons? Other suggestions? All comments welcomed.

THANKS!!

p.s. I have Hi-Res and other views available upon request.
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:21 PM   #2
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Hmmm, awkward area, dunno how much luck you'll have with sealing that in, and not leaving any lurking in cracks and folds to break out again. I'd see if you can find some more liquid phosphoric acid type stuff (major part of naval jelly) and drench the whole area in that. Then spray it all over with a "rust paint", then do the mechanical stabilisation, then use a penetrating undercoat on it.

Myself, knowing it was there, I'd also soak the whole area in WD-40 a couple of times a year. I do that a lot on my cars anyway, have a short "bodywork season" here, which is also yardwork season, house fixing season, take the wife camping season etc etc, so got a couple of things to do like that that have been hanging on with WD-40 hosings for a few years.
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Old 03-12-2008, 05:13 PM   #3
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Im a body man, and doing something like that the hack way is going to be tough.

Hmmmmm i would get a hand held sand blaster like a speedblaster which has a sand hopper on top of a pistol type grip, about $20 from harbor freight tools. Then use some fine sand like play sand (use a mask, playsand is not for blasting, but we are talking hack here) blast every bit of rust you can get to, inside and out, if you don't it will come back. Then i would use something like POR-15 which helps stop metal from rusting, spray it with undercoating. Then i would get some scrap sheet metal from a body shop, like an old hood, hammer to fit, rivet it on and coat it with a paintable undercoating. Then pick up a rattle can of that car color from wal-mart, Autozone, etc. and spray it.

I wouldnt mess with fiberglass, you don't want to hide it, you will regret it, you want to stop it. Fiberglass will crack if not done right and bondo should be used for tight skin coats not filling major voids.

Tape up the good quarter panel part so you don't blast/paint it.

We would not do it like this, we would cut out the affected area and replace it. To do that we would have to buy the whole panel which is the reason for the high costs you are getting.

IMPORTANT: If you miss some of the rust it will come back quick!!! Dont rush it.

Keep that VX going, good luck.
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:50 AM   #4
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- Remove most of the loose rust with a wire brush
- Apply 2-3 coats of rust converter
- Apply a primer with a rust inhibitor then paint
- Shoot some WD 40 in there every oil change
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:04 AM   #5
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I'm using a "rust paint" as a primer these days for the following reasons, primers are often porous, you leave them to dry up overnight and the damn things are sucking up water, from dew, humidity... anyway, I figure using a gloss rust paint for a primer stops that crap. If you've got a heated paint booth and drying oven thing, you can use regular primers. If the car sits outside, I figure on cleaning, rustkilling, and priming with "rust paint" (Tremclad, Rustoleum, hammerite...) in one day, to seal it as soon as it's clean. If you leave bare metal overnight, give it a going over again in the morning. If you need a filling high build primer, you can use it over the rust paint, if you wanna bondo, do it over the rustpaint (but leave it a day or two to set hard, then clean it with alcohol) Well anyway, these are just my idea of the best way to do stuff in the real world, working on the driveway, after a dozen or so "failures" when trying to do it the "right" way with primers.
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Old 03-13-2008, 12:44 PM   #6
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Update: OH, the carnage

Figured since I had to do some sort of rebuilding anyway, may as well get rid of as much rust as possible. I suppose I could get rid of more over the wheel well but I'm already at my skill and tool limit to deal with the mess I've created and don't want to drop $600 on a welder and spend 2 months learning to use it right.

I'm strongly considering the sandblaster idea to get what's left in the wheel arch from the inside. But maybe sandpaper will work just as well.

Question: I've dealt with most of the rust but there are areas I simply won't be able to get it completely. From the new pics here, would POR-15 be sufficient to arrest the rust in the wheel well area? I have ZEP brand rust remover (basically [or acidicly ] concentrated Phosphoric acid) that I was going to use as a surface prep prior to the POR-15.

On to the rebuild questions:
What other materials could I use that might be easier to work with than steel? (No torch, just a hammer and wood to pound against for shaping. That and a pair of sheet metal vise grips)
I thought of aluminum but am worried about galvanic corrosion (dissimilar metals). This doesn't seem to be a structural spot so I'm just trying to seal it from the outside to keep my trunk dry and prevent further rust.

Any tips/tricks/suggestions on how others might tackle rebuilding this section?

I think I may be in over my head on this stuff. Give me nuts and bolts anyday!!!! ugh, I hate rust.
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Old 03-13-2008, 01:44 PM   #7
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pehaps you might use an old computer case. the top is usually metal. and it's probably coated pretty well on at least one side. my dad onse used a but of this i'd brought from work as a temp fix because his rear suspention had rusted trought he booth.... only untill he got his new car but the stuff is quite strong, just in case you'd happen upon an old computer someones tossing away. its probably mot much easyer to work with than other metal, but maybe easyer or cheaper to find
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarhighway View Post
pehaps you might use an old computer case. [snip]
That is a great idea. I even have an old 'pooter to scrap. Still a b*&^% to work with but you just saved me a trip across town and a few bucks at the very least. Thanks!

And Thanks too, to everyones input. Helpful all.

Eeep. What have I got myself into? Wish me luck, I'll be needing it.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:02 PM   #9
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i used rust bullet on my rear quarter panel, its been on over a year and no new growth, though some did get chipped off by a rock probably. the area of damage on mine was very small.

edit: should have looked at the pictures first, didn't realize there was a hole.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:21 AM   #10
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Looks like your getting there. I would still recomend using a sand blaster to get to the places you cant reach and this is why.

If you use sand paper or even a wire brush you wont be getting to the bottom crannys of the rust, and most likely not get the tiny rust flakes off to expose the rust underneath.

Your on the right track, just dont shortcut on the most important part, getting rid of the rust.


Good luck.
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