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Old 09-14-2011, 02:16 PM   #41
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Re: Ethanol Lube

The real way here in the states to get the most out of E85 is to use it on forced induction engines. Tuned right, turbocharged engines LOVE it, and it is much easier to make power.

If I had regular access to stations that sold E85, you could bet I would be throwing an underpowered motor in, throwing on a supercharger or turbocharger and tuning it to run strictly on E85.

As far as an economy sweet spot on E30 or E40.... I haven't heard anything like that before..... not really sure if I can think of a case where that would work. I know with my Explorer, and with the rangers I have had in the past, the more ethanol I put in them, the more money I was throwing away in gas.
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Old 09-15-2011, 12:34 PM   #42
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Re: Ethanol Lube

This is the study I was referring to.
http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg...ve_summary.pdf
It's what think I of as a "quick and dirty" study; something small to see if further investigation is worthwhile.

This one had more vehicles, but all were pre-2000 and a few were pre-1990. Fuel economy dropped for all with E30. However, btu efficiency did not drop as much as the volumetric efficiency. The first study also saw this. There isn't a direct correlation between the energy content reduction in ethanol blends and fuel economy reduction.
http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg...nal_Report.pdf

This one was interesting because the E10AK got a slight improvement (1.7%) over straight gas. It's still E10, but the premix ethanol was denatured with iso-pentane and biodiesel instead of gasoline.
http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg...yStudy_001.pdf

Brazil is experimenting with E30 diesels, and claim a 6% fuel economy improvement. Don't know if they had turbos, but the fuel blending is on board from seperate tanks. So the ethanol content might actual be adjusted during operation.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:00 PM   #43
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Re: Ethanol Lube

Yeah, any of my cars or trucks that I have used ethanol in has been a pre-2000.... I haven't had many pre-1990 vehicles since... well the 90s. After getting an 03 Sunfire back in 03, I decided that I didn't want new vehicles anymore and haven't bought anything newer than 98 since....

I guess it makes sense that the denatured alcohol would work a little bit better, but the cost wouldn't really make economic sense.

As to E30, at first one would think that fuel economy would drop at the same rate of energy content, but, ICEs don't operate at 100% efficiency, and much of the efficiency loss is through heat, so reducing the BTUs of a fuel would not have a directly translatable effect on the efficiency of an engine... Weird to think about, but yeah..

If you want to see some really impressive ethanol diesel mixes.... I have heard of some studies saying that a 50/50 mix of ethanol/diesel will provide the lowest specific fuel consumption and highest brake thermal efficiency. But, I don't think adding Ethanol to diesel will catch on in the US since Ethanol is a much lower cetane fuel, so you will have VERY high NOx emissions. Adding dimethyl ether to the ethanol/diesel mixes increases efficiency slightly more... just as an aside....
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:22 PM   #44
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Re: Ethanol Lube

I didn't notice it here but, does Ethanol have anything to do with the significant MPG change when they switch from summer to winter gas, or is that caused by government making gas in California.

Seems the main problem with Ethanol is that it is made from food.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #45
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Re: Ethanol Lube

Quote:
Seems the main problem with Ethanol is that it is made from food.
It could potentially be made from other sources.

The main problem is the politics behind it.

Butanol has a higher energy content, isn't hygroscopic, is compatible with cars and pipelines in large concentrations without modification, and is closer to fermentation from non-food or waste stock than ethanol, if not already there. It just doesn't have well funded lobbyists.
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:00 PM   #46
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Re: Ethanol Lube

Quote:
Originally Posted by trollbait View Post
The main problem is the politics behind it.
THAT could be said for a great many issues around the nation and the world!
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