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Old 11-05-2007, 10:14 AM   #11
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I read a few threads there at the Saturn forums and have a few things to try. Got the oil changed today for Quaker state 10w30. I will watch it and see how much it really is burning to determine what further actions I will take.

Thanks for the input everyone.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:12 AM   #12
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Something to Consider

Given what I've read over the last three years, were it my car, I'd treat it to a regimen of Auto-Rx. This thread might interest you, and this one has a post from someone (bender) you might want to contact to learn just what Auto-Rx did in his Saturn.

Also, spend some time searching this forum for both generic and Saturn-specific issues that interest you.

Having just had the oil changed with conventional (dino) Quaker State, you can start the regimen as soon as the bottle(s) of Auto-Rx arrive. There's no need for another change right now, simply pour the Auto-Rx into the engine and it will mix with your 10W-30 QS.

Let us know what you do and how things progress.
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Old 11-08-2007, 04:46 AM   #13
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Thanks for the links, I have browsed those two sites and will do some more research on the auto-rx product if it comes down to trying an additive.
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:44 PM   #14
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Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but, I had something to add. This car having been in a flood obviously can't help. But, there is an inherent problem with Saturns that causes them to burn oil. On most cars the pistons have oil drain back holes in the oil control ring grooves of the pistons. Saturns do not have these drain back holes. Therefore, when oil gets in the oil control ring it can't get back down. It eventually finds it's way up into the combustion chamber and gets burned off. This also causes the rings to get gummed up and stick. Which is why the Saturn forums suggest the Seafoam/MMO/GM Top End Cleaner piston soak to help free the rings up. It works pretty well if the engine isn't in too bad of shape already. Just look at the tech articles on sixthsphere.com for a how to on it.

Also note that, per the FSMs, Saturn considers 1 quart of oil consumption per 1,000 miles to be normal and acceptable for the S-Series. The FSM's also state that driving at high speeds/high engine speeds causes more oil consumption. So low speeds should not cause this. Also, if you were ever to rebuild your engine there are aftermarket pistons by Sealed Power that have these drain back holes. The pistons are also hypereutectic, so you can run pretty tight clearances with them to combat blow by.

So, basically, just check your oil every time you fill up and you'll be fine. If it gets too bad, consider a rebuild. The LL0/LK0 engines are pretty simple to build.
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:31 PM   #15
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I think the reason high RPMs contribute to increased oil burning is that more air is being sucked through the PCV valve and taking oil droplets with it. Install a PCV catch can and monitor how often you have to empty it. My catch can seems to fill up very quickly but I never lose more than 1/2 quart between oil changes.
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:40 AM   #16
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Po' Daddy -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Po' Daddy View Post
Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but, I had something to add. This car having been in a flood obviously can't help. But, there is an inherent problem with Saturns that causes them to burn oil. On most cars the pistons have oil drain back holes in the oil control ring grooves of the pistons. Saturns do not have these drain back holes. Therefore, when oil gets in the oil control ring it can't get back down. It eventually finds it's way up into the combustion chamber and gets burned off. This also causes the rings to get gummed up and stick. Which is why the Saturn forums suggest the Seafoam/MMO/GM Top End Cleaner piston soak to help free the rings up. It works pretty well if the engine isn't in too bad of shape already. Just look at the tech articles on sixthsphere.com for a how to on it.

Also note that, per the FSMs, Saturn considers 1 quart of oil consumption per 1,000 miles to be normal and acceptable for the S-Series. The FSM's also state that driving at high speeds/high engine speeds causes more oil consumption. So low speeds should not cause this. Also, if you were ever to rebuild your engine there are aftermarket pistons by Sealed Power that have these drain back holes. The pistons are also hypereutectic, so you can run pretty tight clearances with them to combat blow by.

So, basically, just check your oil every time you fill up and you'll be fine. If it gets too bad, consider a rebuild. The LL0/LK0 engines are pretty simple to build.
That would be consistent with my experience. I first noticed the oil burning when my commute became highway based. I am going to ask my mechanic for a Seafoam treatment.

I seem to remember someone on this forum (or SaturnFans?!?!?!) asking about performance aftermarket parts for Saturn engines. The Sealed Power option sounds like what they were looking for.

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Old 11-18-2007, 04:25 AM   #17
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I had some good experience with Auto-RX in my V10 Ford truck. It cleaned things up clean as a whistle under the valve cover. If it cleaned the bad varnish up as good as that, I'm sure it cleaned everything else like advertised.

The truck felt like it had awakened from a sleep. Of course, that was from using a thinner oil, as well. But still...I think it's a good product. The attractive thing is that it is a slow and gentle cleaner.
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:41 PM   #18
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Po' Daddy -
I seem to remember someone on this forum (or SaturnFans?!?!?!) asking about performance aftermarket parts for Saturn engines. The Sealed Power option sounds like what they were looking for.

CarloSW2
These pistons aren't really a performance piston. They are meant to be stock replacements. They're just made a little better.
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Old 11-21-2007, 08:19 PM   #19
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This is interesting. I guess I just got lucky. My Saturn at 87k is not needing any oil added between changes yet. My Saturn makes the oil dark though. I blamed that on the edges of the combustion chamber but I am just speculating.
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:32 AM   #20
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I would first check for leaks, that would be my only priority because if it has internal engine problems then you may have to chalk this one up to experience. If you can't get it to stop consuming oil after all leaks are fixed, you may just want to start saving your money for a better car and drive this one until it craps out but first I would look for leaks.

Experience is what we learn with age, here's what I know:

Upkeep of a used sold car is the BUYER's responsibility!
The seller don't care, it's outta here, all he or she has to (and wants to) do is make sure it's not falling apart and clean it up but beyond that the seller has no responsibility because their responsibility goes to the car they are buying next, see how that works?
Somebody has to take car of the car, the responsibility could fall either way but it makes the most sense to dump your resources into the car you're buying since that's what you will be using, and if all buyers always assume this responsibility then the seller is absolved and it makes it easy, plus it's the way it is
- So, it is always the buyer's responsibility to ensure upkeep, especially with used cars.

It may not be the best news, but it's the way it is, houses are the same way.

ALWAYS change the oil first thing anytime you buy a used car.
Matter of fact you really should splurge at this point and spend some serious money doing a trans fluid and filter change, then replace fuel and air filter, spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor, pcv valve, breather cap, maybe the 02 sensor, also inspect brake pads and while you're there grease pack the wheel bearings and check tie rod ends and bushings for wear... Beyond this a cooling system flush and fill might be helpful but more than this fix and repair anything else that's broken.

Might take a week or two, might cost a thousand or two (far less if you DIY) but it's a long time trouble free driving and thus well worth it.

Bonus: This initial maintenance spell helps wear off that new car excitement, one hates to do it but it's a productive way to wear it off and helps make the buyer respect the car more early on as well.

............
Any car that uses more than one quart of oil between changes is losing a significant amount of oil! Technically speaking no oil should have to be added between changes, thou one quart is considered acceptable... Via this math a car could lose (use) up to two quarts between changes, one quart is added at 1500 miles then at 3000 it's changed, but not beyond.

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This is interesting. I guess I just got lucky. My Saturn at 87k is not needing any oil added between changes yet. My Saturn makes the oil dark though. I blamed that on the edges of the combustion chamber but I am just speculating.
They all darken some, if changed every 3k the darkening should be minimal.
If after 1-2 changes it still goes pitch black between changes a motor flush might be considered (sold at auto stores in a quart bottle with instructions, or you can use a quart of kerosene if you know how to do it already).
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