VX engine build/swap (in-progress) w/ pics - Page 4 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 12-12-2007, 08:21 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93dagsr View Post
how much has it cost you so far??
engine - $400
parts - $500
Head work - $350
car - $2,500

total: $3,750...

*there's odds and ends that I'm probably not accounting for, and things/tools that I'm using that I already own, but those are the major costs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancho VX View Post
I'm sorry if I missed it. But did you hone the cylinder wall for the new rings?

Are you going to check the compression ratio before you button it back up?
-the cylinders were in great shape, so I left them alone.
-new rings
-I haven't figure out how to check/measure this...but I can calculate it:

VX engine:
Bore 2.95 in
Stroke 3.33 in
OE CR 9.3
Vol. of 1 Cyl: 22.74877013 in^3

BDC Vol. of 1 cly: 22.74877013 in^3
OE TDC Vol. of 1 cly: 2.446104315in^3 (calculated using the OE CR)
shaved 0.02" --> Delta Head Vol. 0.13662925 in^3
New TDC Vol. of 1 Cyl: 2.309475065 in^3
New CR 9.85019084

*feel free to check my math...I tend to make simple mistakes

there should have been a bit more of the head shaved off in the initial flatening of the head (it was slightly warped), but I don't think it'd be any more than 10:1...which is what I was going for.



**I added new pics and an update
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:52 PM   #32
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I don't know how far along you are, but I would really, strongly recommend you back up and hone the cylinder walls. The honing is really not to address the cylinders, so much as it is to give the new rings something to wear against, just a little bit, so any high spots get knocked down quickly. If you don't hone the cylinder walls your much more likely to have the new rings never seat properly and then it will be burning a little oil, on a regular basis.

As far as the rebuild goes, it is something I have done to two different Honda engines, because when I took them apart the cranks didn't have any scoring and the cylinder walls were real clean. In fact the rod and main bearings looked like they had just barely worn through the waxy finish on new bearings. When I checked the rod and main clearances, the bearings were only worn a couple of thousandth's, even though the engines were at 150,000 and 195,000. The only problem I have had is that their is a tiny amount of piston slap, when the engines are cold but, other than that, they run great, don't use oil and don't seem to have any other significant issues.

With the engine lasting as long as they are capable of, your rebuild efforts on the engine will be a great value to you, for a long time to come. I highly recommend what you are doing to anyone who needs to work on their Honda engine. Amazing.

I would recommend a new oil pump, if you haven't done one, already. When I did my second one, I put a pressure gauge on to monitor it and I was getting precipitously low pressure when it was warmed up. I went back and replaced the pump and put in new bearing inserts, with the consequence being that the pressure sits at about 40 when it's warmed up and idling.
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:30 PM   #33
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And while you're at it, make sure you replace the front and rear crank oil seals. It would be a real b**** if you had one of them leak after all your hard work.

BTW 350, did you get your CX/VX tranny?
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:16 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by first350 View Post
humm....I"ll have to search around about this...
Nothing really to search for, when you shorten the distance between the head and the block by shaving it, the cam gears will index differently because the distance from the crank pulley to the cam pulley is smaller. In the case of a honda motor that rotates backwards, it will retard the cam timing. Just get an adjustable cam sprocket, grab a manual that has the cam timing specs on it, find the centerline and time the cam @.050 or whatever honda recommends.

I've got FSM for Ludes and tegs, but nothing for a single cam civic. Perhaps ebay?
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Gary Palmer View Post
I don't know how far along you are, but I would really, strongly recomnocked down quickly. If you don't hone the cylinder walls your much more likely to have the new rings never seat properly and then it will be burning a little oilmend you back up and hone the cylinder walls. The honing is really not to address the cylinders, so much as it is to give the new rings something to wear against, just a little bit, so any high spots get k, on a regular basis.

As far as the rebuild goes, it is something I have done to two different Honda engines, because when I took them apart the cranks didn't have any scoring and the cylinder walls were real clean. In fact the rod and main bearings looked like they had just barely worn through the waxy finish on new bearings. When I checked the rod and main clearances, the bearings were only worn a couple of thousandth's, even though the engines were at 150,000 and 195,000. The only problem I have had is that their is a tiny amount of piston slap, when the engines are cold but, other than that, they run great, don't use oil and don't seem to have any other significant issues.

With the engine lasting as long as they are capable of, your rebuild efforts on the engine will be a great value to you, for a long time to come. I highly recommend what you are doing to anyone who needs to work on their Honda engine. Amazing.

I would recommend a new oil pump, if you haven't done one, already. When I did my second one, I put a pressure gauge on to monitor it and I was getting precipitously low pressure when it was warmed up. I went back and replaced the pump and put in new bearing inserts, with the consequence being that the pressure sits at about 40 when it's warmed up and idling.
humm...the engine is all put back together at this point - and I have an appointment w/ a shop to do the swap this Monday (work has gotten way to busy to try to do the swap myself). The guys at the machine shop said that as long as the cylinder walls were in good shape, they didn't think it needed to be honed...

so does the honing/cross-hatching help w/ the ring break in period, or is it to ensure that there's not a small scratch that will cause oil consumption??

I got a new oil/water pump, and a full gasket set - I'm planning on this engine to last a long time!

thanks for your help!
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:30 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by jadziasman View Post
And while you're at it, make sure you replace the front and rear crank oil seals. It would be a real b**** if you had one of them leak after all your hard work.

BTW 350, did you get your CX/VX tranny?
both seals are new - the old seals are a pain to get out!

I ended up getting a shop to do the swap for me, and they also have a CX/VX tranny...so the car *should* be up and running by late next week
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by TAftonomos View Post
Nothing really to search for, when you shorten the distance between the head and the block by shaving it, the cam gears will index differently because the distance from the crank pulley to the cam pulley is smaller. In the case of a honda motor that rotates backwards, it will retard the cam timing. Just get an adjustable cam sprocket, grab a manual that has the cam timing specs on it, find the centerline and time the cam @.050 or whatever honda recommends.

I've got FSM for Ludes and tegs, but nothing for a single cam civic. Perhaps ebay?
OH! I get it now. I was thinking cam/valve/piston timing due to changes in the cam lobe profile...that's at least what I took away from the article.

do you think 0.02" off the head will change things that much? I was thinking of getting an adjustable cam gear anyways...I wanted to play w/ timing to see what I could squeeze out of it for FE.

thanks!
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:04 PM   #38
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I second the honing suggestion- right now the cylinders are super slick and a tiny bit out of round. The new rings will never seal correctly until you hone and rough it up a little- its sometimes called "breaking the glaze". The cross hatch pattern will cause the rings to wear a little to the proper shape of your cylinders which is what you want for a good seal. Be sure to rinse these particles out of the cylinders. It will take a lot of paper towels and WD40 to get all of this metal "residue" out.

The old fashioned way to seal the new rings after the break in is to let it warm up and then drive it moderately hard raising and lowering rpms in top gear in a pulse and glide type manner- but let the engine do the braking on the glide part. Some people say that babying it will not let the rings seat properly. There is plenty of debate on this issue though.

After a re ring job, I always change my oil and filter after about one hour of break in and then again after 100-200 miles.

The engine will heat up pretty quick when you first start it, this is normal- there is a lot of friction between the honed cylinders and new rings when you first start it.

So what all did the machine shop do to your head for $350? The local shop charged me $30 to shave my d15 head and just another $85 to hot tank and bead blast the head, grind all 16 of my valves/seats and install new valve stem seals (I supplied the seals). My guides were in good shape so they didn't need to be knurled. I am in a rural area so things around here are pretty reasonable.

I notice a tiny bit more spark knock than I did before I had the head shaved, I still burn 87 octane. I definitely noticed that the cam timing was retarded when I went to set the timing- I am now pretty close to the most advanced setting possible with my distributor. I need to find one of those adjustable cam sprockets...

To be safe, you might want to grind a tiny bit off of each of the hollow locating dowels on your head- if one of these bottoms out, then you won't be able to get the proper pressure on the head gasket.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:08 PM   #39
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Here's a good engine break in article on Team-Integra.net

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=389
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Old 12-12-2007, 09:31 PM   #40
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Wow. That little bit shaved off really affected the C/R. On my integra b18b1 I had to have .06 shaved off just to get it flat.... I'm surprised that didnt cause an issue with pinging on low-grade fuel since that must have bumped up the compression a bit.

I had no problems at all when I aligned the timing belt on that DOHC motor, and I had OEM cam gears, non adjustable. I think you should be fine with getting the timing right.
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