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Old 11-11-2006, 10:24 PM   #1
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EOC problems

I've been experimenting with EOC today, and have run into three problems. The first is that with an AT, the car won't start unless it's in park. The second is that if I'm doing it at night, my battery hates me and the engine occasionally stalls upon startup (turning the lights off, waiting two seconds then starting it again works fine though). The third is that my power steering and brakes also hate me when the engine is off.

Unless someone knows a way to easily fix the fact that the engine won't start outside of park, I'm stuck doing this only when I know that I'm coming to a complete stop (I already made an embarrassing forced stop mid traffic because I didn't know that the engine wouldn't start in neutral). I'm not very technically minded, so if it isn't simple, I'm just going to have to save EOCing for when I know that I"m coming to a complete stop (though I did have alot of luck tonight with EOCing over a mile down a bridge to a red turn signal that doesn't go green at night). Any ideas? I know that I need to switch to a stick, but no money for that right now.

Is the power steering/brake issue battery related? It's a pretty new battery, so I hope that it isn't weak. If so, are there small solar panels that I can wire into something in my car to give juice to the battery when I'm not using the car (in Florida we have too much sunlight so I might as well use it for something). I saw a post about teh VW solar pannels, but those were for OBD2 (this car was built in 1992). Is there any way to modify one to plug into the cigarette lighter or something? Again, I'm not very technically minded, so please don't laugh if that was a stupid question.

Thanks!
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Old 11-12-2006, 06:30 AM   #2
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PS/Brakes

Yeah, the PS and Brakes don't have the vacuum from a running engine to make them easy to use, hence "power" steering.

That stinks that you have to put it in Park to re-start. There may be a way to wire-up the lockout to release in the Neutral position. Since the transmission works by a solid cable to engage Park, Reverse, etc., the electronic position could possibly be "fooled" to be in Park when in Neutral -- could be as simple as running a jumper wire from the Park wire to the Neutral wire (find some wiring schematics if you can, or get in there and experiment).

Someone correct me if I'm off base here...

RH77
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Old 11-12-2006, 08:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh77

Someone correct me if I'm off base here...

RH77
Your rite.

Some where there is a switch that sences N or P (seems this car is only P) that can be bypassed to allow restarting in gear.
It will either be on the shifter mechanism or on the gearbox.

Checking its state with a multimeter will determine if it needs to be open or closed for the starter to operate.
It can be bypassed quite easily.

I would wire up a kill switch and a start switch that are in very easy reach.
This would remove the risk of accidently locking the steering or turning off the lights when turning the key off.


**I dont support engine off coasting especially in an auto at all **
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Old 11-12-2006, 08:33 AM   #4
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I could start in neutral with my auto honda, but yeah, I guess the accords are different. I never tried EOC in it though just because the lack of control you get with an auto always made it too scary.

Stick FTW.
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy
I could start in neutral with my auto honda, but yeah, I guess the accords are different. I never tried EOC in it though just because the lack of control you get with an auto always made it too scary.

Stick FTW.
I like livin' life on the edge

The 'Teg doesn't mind EOC at all -- the PS acts like manual steering and is really easy to move, even at slow speeds. With key-on, the ABS works and I usually have 3 good pumps before the pedal gets pretty solid. There are places that I can coast for quite a while -- seems to help FE.

Now, the TSX doesn't like EOC at all -- uses a lot of fuel on startup, brakes lose vac, and the steering is supah tight.

RH77
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Old 11-12-2006, 10:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh77
and the steering is supah tight.

RH77
The power steering racks or boxes (does anyone even use boxes anymore?) in a power steering car usually have much less turns from lock to lock ratio than a non power steering car.

This means that when power goes out the steering effort is not the same as a non power car , but much higher.

On some small car (which doesnt realy need power anyway) it might not be too bad to wrestle around without power steering , but a heavy car might be a huge problem.
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Old 11-12-2006, 11:01 PM   #7
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Even on my tiny Accord, pulling onto the grass in front of my house was difficult without PS. Too bad it isn't battery related.
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Old 11-12-2006, 11:54 PM   #8
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rh77 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by rh77
I like livin' life on the edge

The 'Teg doesn't mind EOC at all -- the PS acts like manual steering and is really easy to move, even at slow speeds. With key-on, the ABS works and I usually have 3 good pumps before the pedal gets pretty solid. There are places that I can coast for quite a while -- seems to help FE.

Now, the TSX doesn't like EOC at all -- uses a lot of fuel on startup, brakes lose vac, and the steering is supah tight.

RH77
Could the 'Teg's behavior be a safety feature? Lose PS and the Integra reverts to manual????? I wish other cars (at least the small ones) did this.

CarloSW2
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Old 11-13-2006, 08:21 AM   #9
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Not sure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83
Could the 'Teg's behavior be a safety feature? Lose PS and the Integra reverts to manual????? I wish other cars (at least the small ones) did this. CarloSW2
Not sure if it's safety or coincidence. It acts almost exactly like my old non-PS, '97 Civic at any speed EOC'ing. It may share similar parts with manual-steering Hondas with the power-addition. Some car lines don't have manual racks available as an option, so it might not have been designed as such for other manufacturers.

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Old 11-13-2006, 09:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh77
Not sure if it's safety or coincidence. It acts almost exactly like my old non-PS, '97 Civic at any speed EOC'ing. It may share similar parts with manual-steering Hondas with the power-addition. Some car lines don't have manual racks available as an option, so it might not have been designed as such for other manufacturers.

RH77
Having less leverage with P/S steering (hence the need for powered hydraulics) definately adds to the problem. The weight sitting on the front wheels has a lot to do with it, as does tire width. The integra is 2640 lbs and the tsx is 3345 lbs. Though not all of the difference is on the front wheels, this is no doubt part of it. Maybe tires are bigger too.

As for power brakes, once the vacuum reserve is expended, there is not only no more 'assist', but the pressure you must exert has to also overcome pushing the diaphram that is normally pulled by the vacuum. If you want to lessen the difference between engine-on and off, you can take hints from the EV crowd (since they have no ICE to begin with). They either add an electric vacuum pump, or they drill a hole through the diaphram to make their brakes true full-time manual brakes. The vac pump sounds like the better route to me.

Speaking of auxilliary pumps, some EVs and hybrids have electric P/S pumps. I fear these would draw a lot of electric power but it's yet another option. Some newer cars even have P/S powered entirely electrically without the weight and inefficiency of hydraulics.
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