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Old 11-11-2008, 01:22 PM   #1
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ULSD vs LSD

Ok, I had thought that Ultra Low Sulfur was taking over completely.

I hadn't driven the Excursion a whole bunch, but I certainly had an opportunity to get fuel. Really decided to wait it out a bit. The station closest to me is usually the most expensive. Unsure why. Well, a few weeks ago, they dropped their diesel price quite dramatically. It was $2.89 when the market price seemed to be around $3.30 plus with an area high of $3.60. I filled up, then the next day I had some good running around to do, and I filled again since it was still so inexpensive.

As I was filling up, I noticed that is was stated on the pump that it was Low Sulfur Diesel (50ppm), and I was actually a little surprised. My mileage was really quite good on that tank too. Got fuel today at another station, and it was actually ULSD (15ppm).

Anyone have knowledge on the subject? Sure, we can talk about the lubricity of LSD vs ULSD too.
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:36 PM   #2
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I know that ULSD does not help keep the pump seals swelled and sealed on older diesels as well as LSD. Some people say that pump seals leaking from ULSD can be fixed temporarily by running a bottle of ATF through the pump and letting it sit overnight to soak. The throttle shaft on my jetta pump started to leak, I just replaced the O ring with one that was close. Eventually I'm going to replace all the seals with a ULSD resistant kit.
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:58 PM   #3
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Could it be that they forgot to update the label on the pump?
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:11 PM   #4
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Could it be that they forgot to update the label on the pump?
Could be, but regulation like that is usually kept up with by the departments that regulate those kinds of things. Isn't that state departments of agriculture?

Just found this...
http://commerce.wi.gov/newsletter/20...LowSulfur.html
"All dispenser pumps must be labeled to indicate the sulfur level and designation of the fuel. (e.g. S15 diesel or S500 diesel.) For example, any dispenser with S500 (500 ppm of sulfur) diesel fuel must declare that the fuel is not suitable for fueling model year 2007 and later vehicles. All diesel dispensers must be appropriately labeled on June 1, 2006."

Maybe I just figured out that I can actually buy Low Sulfur Diesel rather than Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.

And, for the next possible question, is wasn't an off road pump. In fact, this station does not have an off highway pump. I did a drive by at another local station, and theirs was marked with ULSD.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:53 PM   #5
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MAXIMUM sulfur content is listed.
That LSD label allows up to 50 (or 500, I forget which) ppm, but might have been dispensing fuel with 15 ppm or less. But even if the fuel were under 15 ppm it would not be legal to dispense in a vehicle requiring compliance with ULSD 15 ppm limit certification on the pump.

Just as the octane rating on gasoline pumps indicate the fuel is at least that octane posted.
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:37 PM   #6
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In the General Fuel Economy forums I posted a thread "Best Fuel Lubricity Additive" that has a chart of the best fuel lubricators for diesels. Adding 2% pure biodiesel (B100) actually yielded better results than all the additives such as Stanadyne, PowerService, and two-stroke oil. The military also did a report in which adding 1% Ethyl Castor biodiesel to your tank made a huge difference in lubricity. I think this would also keep your seals from shrinking and leaking and it'll help your engine, injectors, and pump last longer as well.
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Old 11-15-2008, 05:48 AM   #7
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In the General Fuel Economy forums I posted a thread "Best Fuel Lubricity Additive" that has a chart of the best fuel lubricators for diesels. Adding 2% pure biodiesel (B100) actually yielded better results than all the additives such as Stanadyne, PowerService, and two-stroke oil. The military also did a report in which adding 1% Ethyl Castor biodiesel to your tank made a huge difference in lubricity. I think this would also keep your seals from shrinking and leaking and it'll help your engine, injectors, and pump last longer as well.
B2 is not common in my area. I've had that lubricity data for a long time myself. I've used some of those that works, and I have not seen a change in mileage in using them. Nor have I seen better mileage in using B2 to B11 when it was available to me when I took some trips.

My diesel is a 2003 model, and it does not require 15ppm fuel.

Who has mileage data on their 15ppm vs higher levels of sulfur fuel?
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
MAXIMUM sulfur content is listed.
That LSD label allows up to 50 (or 500, I forget which) ppm, but might have been dispensing fuel with 15 ppm or less. But even if the fuel were under 15 ppm it would not be legal to dispense in a vehicle requiring compliance with ULSD 15 ppm limit certification on the pump.

Just as the octane rating on gasoline pumps indicate the fuel is at least that octane posted.
Yes, I agree that it states up to, but certainly it would eliminate the station's ability to sell to those that require ULSD because of emissions.

This is a unique pump in the area, and I'm gonna have to look into it more. If LSD is going to give me better fuel mileage than ULSD, even better than ULSD with the extra cost in additives, I might have to seek it out.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:02 PM   #9
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If it is actually LSD, it is old fuel.
Part of the delay in ULSD introduction was a reluctance of refiners to make "boutique" blends. They learned that problem from California gasoline requirements. The refiners petitioned and were granted a delay or moratorium on ULSD introduction in return for which they agreed they would make only ULSD, even for marine and railroad diesel fuel.
If there is LSD fuel still around it has been a year or more since it left a refinery.
I really suspect that either the in-ground tank hasn't been emptied enough of LSD and was re-filled with ULSD, but not enough to keep the 'mix' of LSD and ULSD below the 15 ppm limit, or else simply the labels haven't been changed yet.
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:15 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
If it is actually LSD, it is old fuel.
Part of the delay in ULSD introduction was a reluctance of refiners to make "boutique" blends. They learned that problem from California gasoline requirements. The refiners petitioned and were granted a delay or moratorium on ULSD introduction in return for which they agreed they would make only ULSD, even for marine and railroad diesel fuel.
If there is LSD fuel still around it has been a year or more since it left a refinery.
I really suspect that either the in-ground tank hasn't been emptied enough of LSD and was re-filled with ULSD, but not enough to keep the 'mix' of LSD and ULSD below the 15 ppm limit, or else simply the labels haven't been changed yet.
I thought that it was old fuel too. But that would mean a lot of other things. Could cause algae problems, etc. After a few refills of a tank, I think you'd have no problem in meeting the ppm limits. Are they measured at the tank? Or are they actually just certified at the refiner? That is my understanding, as they are the ones responsible for that process.

So, while I was looking around for more information, I actually found that data is tracked on diesel fuel sales, and LSD is separate from ULSD.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...0_mgalpd_m.htm

So, there is LSD available. It's not sold as much as ULSD, but it is available. I don't know for how long.
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