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Old 03-21-2015, 08:43 AM   #11
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My tiny Fiat 126 felt like the fastest car I ever had, even with 26 HP, whereas doing 145 MPH in my freinds Mitsubishi Evo felt a bit boring. It's not like acceleration is vital in the US anyway. Most of the roads are highways so you have lanes to go as fast or slow as you like, and overtake accordingly. Here, passing a slower driver means accelerating into oncoming traffic whenever there's a straight stretch of road, quite dangerous!

And that brings me back to the point of fuel being too cheap. The only way to get people to want to save fuel, or even realise they are wasting fuel, is to hit them in the pocket. In a bizzare way, I think our fuel prices are spot on at $7 - $8 a gallon. Not only does it encourage people to drive more efficiently and slash emissions, but it also puts constant pressure on car makers to develop clever ways of saving fuel. Its what keeps the car market alive.
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:39 PM   #12
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I knew it wouldn't be long, now I've just been looking at the fuel stats for the new VW Polo and noticed it achieved an incredible 108 MPG during the "Highway" or "extra urban" test during the European economy tests (NEDC) It managed an impressive 91 MPG average. It seems German diesels are now overtaking the French in terms of low emissions and economy, they are constantly developing ways to save every last drop of fuel, very impressive stuff.

Now we all know how manufactures manipulate test results, so it's probable that these figures are grossly exaggerated and will be near impossible for most people during every day driving, but for hypermilers, this might just be the car for you, and even if you shave 25 MPG off the test figures for "real World" driving, it's still amazing economy regardless of any lab test.

Thanks for reading, thoughts, discussion and opinions welcome
I have a question: Do you required to use DEF fluid there? I talked to one RVer that pulls a fifthwheel and he uses about 5 gals of DEF for 1000 miles. I understand he is pulling alot of weight ,What is your use?
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Old 03-24-2015, 06:33 PM   #13
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This was discussed at length in another recent thread.

Most european diesels don't use exhaust fluid. US NOx standards are stricter and thus most european diesels wouldn't pass smog here.

However, euro smog standards are getting stricter because diesel NOx emissions are the cause of the heavy smog in most large european cities. Several countries (most notably France and the UK) have already announced plans to "regulate" diesels out of common use.
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:14 PM   #14
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What do you know, there's quite an interesting op-ed on TTAC today about just this particular subject:

No Fixed Abode: Stupid Paris stupid does. - The Truth About Cars
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Old 03-25-2015, 12:56 AM   #15
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I have a question: Do you required to use DEF fluid there? I talked to one RVer that pulls a fifthwheel and he uses about 5 gals of DEF for 1000 miles. I understand he is pulling alot of weight ,What is your use?
Only large commercial trucks and buses etc, they are the main cause of pollution build up in the high traffic areas. Small cars that do almost 100 MPG obviously emit very small amounts of pollution compared to large commercial vehicles.
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:24 AM   #16
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What do you know, there's quite an interesting op-ed on TTAC today about just this particular subject:

No Fixed Abode: Stupid Paris stupid does. - The Truth About Cars
The author makes a basic error. That is conflating the public health problems of particulate air pollution with diesel. Yes, a diesel can emit a lot of them, which is why the research focused on them. New diesels are required to have DPFs now, though. With them installed, the exhaust pipe of a diesel car will be soot free after 10,000 miles. The air coming out of the pipe is cleaner than the ambient air in terms of particulates.

Without the mass of diesel particulates to over shadow them, the particulates from gasoline engines will become an issue. Direct injected gas engines exceed Europe's threshold on particulate emissions. They are receiving an exception now, but will require an exhaust filter in the coming years. Some port injected gassers exceed the limits.

The problem in Europe is that they encouraged diesel adoption before the cars' emission amounts were on par with gasoline ones. Now the diesel's longevity pro has become a public health con. The issue is with the old diesels running around that predate the stricter emission regulations. Even if they aren't as strict as the EPA's, a new diesel car will be a big improvement for air quality over an old one.

Because of the lack of interest in diesels for personal cars in the US, this won't be a problem for the country. The price difference keeps the interest low, but mainly diesels are required to emit as little as gasoline cars. They actually emit less because of the DPF and diesel's natural advantage in regards to carbon monoxide emissions. Many new diesels are already getting certified to the EPA's new tier 3 standards. gasoline cars have to wait until ULSG comes to market for that. On the off road, locomotive, and heating oil front, those are all cleaner than before due to the fuels also being ultra low sulfur.

I support diesel, because it seems to have a better chance of being made renewably than gasoline at this time. There is a company with a handful of stations in California selling renewable diesel that isn't biodiesel already. A biomass mass to liquid process under development for diesel is actually carbon negative in the GREET model.

Even though they adopted lower sulfur diesel faster then the US
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:15 AM   #17
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Interesting info there trollbait, thanks for the input! It kind of annoys me to think the US government is still using "smog standards" as an impossibly old fashioned excuse to keep diesels out the US. The diesel engine has been around for 125 years now, I think some people think the technology is still from the 1890's too! And it looks like the auto journo scaremongering crew are doing a brilliant job embedding the false dirty diesel outdated smog stories into the minds of the general public too.

And I also find it a tad ironic of not hyprocrytical that the "pick up truck" genre, the most popular genre on the US market, is also exempt from emission standards too is it not?
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:47 AM   #18
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The 3/4 ton, 2500 class, and larger trucks have laxer emission standards. Because of their cost, and lower fuel economy, the majority likely do end up in the hands of actual businesses and those with hobbies that require the ability to tow large loads. The exception would be to that would be the diesels, simply because until recently, we weren't offered a diesel option in the smaller trucks.

The 1/2 ton class, the F150, Silverado, Ram 1500, is the popular size. I think the emission limits are the same as cars, but the fuel economy targets are lower. The recent changes to CAFE closed the gap with the cars some. The larger classes aren't required to even post a fuel economy figure on the window. The truck class also includes SUV, minivans, crossovers, and some wagons.

While there is some bias at the EPA against diesels, what is really keeping them out is cost and past experience. The poor reliability of the GM gas-diesels from the '80s left a real sour note in the public conscious. After that time, the only diesel cars available until recently were Mercedes and VWs. The VW brand has a poor reliability reputation here, and the Mercedes are just expensive. So only diesel fans bought them in small numbers. This was the time when the emission regulations on diesels was laxer than gas cars.

Now that we are getting more choices, the fuel that was historically cheaper than gas, is now more expensive in most of the country.
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:35 PM   #19
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My 1986 F150 has emission controls, including positive crankcase ventilation and air injection into the exhaust. It also has a catalytic converter, and it might have had an O2 sensor at one time. It is supposed to have some computer control over the mixture, but frankly I doubt that works any longer. I used to have a 1973 Dodge W200, which was the 3/4 ton version. It had positive crankcase ventiliation and (I think) EGR. So for at least the last four decades US pickups have had some form of emission controls.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:30 PM   #20
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The 3/4 ton have emission controls, but if they fall above the Light Truck category, the emission limits are more lax than for cars and light trucks. I figure if it didn't require a mpg window sticker, it is in the larger Heavy Light Truck one.
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