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Old 06-18-2008, 11:44 AM   #81
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I'm not sure what a "2-box" is, ...
A "two-box" is any type hatchback, station wagon, or SUV without a trunk. A "three-box" is a typical sedan with a trunk.
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Old 06-18-2008, 12:47 PM   #82
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A "two-box" is any type hatchback, station wagon, or SUV without a trunk. A "three-box" is a typical sedan with a trunk.
Gotcha. Never heard of it termed that way - thanks.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:04 PM   #83
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So for a 2-box design, I wonder if airtabs would be better or if a spoiler would, or if both kinda achieve the same in that case.

I suspect it would not be good to have the air go straight down the vertical rear window of an SUV.

Would civic matic benefit from adding more airtabs, but this time at the end of his trunk? After all, he too will have a vertical bumper...
I had a factory installed rear spoiler on my old 1980 Pontiac Bonneville Safari wagon. A friend of my mother's had the exact same car, but hers was a 1978 Pontiac Catalina Safari (same car, different trim). The Catalina did not have the rear spoiler. I had driven both cars and the spoiler did not really change the handling of either car. I don't know if it changed the mileage as I believe the cars were equipped with different engines. The Bonneville had a big block 4.9 liter V8, and I believe the Catalina had a small block 5.7 liter engine.

The biggest noticeable difference was that the rear window stayed cleaner in the car with the spoiler, and remained clearer and drier when driving in the rain.
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:27 PM   #84
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Would civic matic benefit from adding more airtabs, but this time at the end of his trunk? After all, he too will have a vertical bumper...
I actually thought about doing that but I am thinking that I still need a spoiler to reduce the lift effect on the car (I am still planning on lowering the car by 1.5" to 2" as well).

I went ahead and added airtabs at the front of each rear wheel wells as well. I'll post pics when I get the chance.

I was looking forward to a good drive on the way to work tonight (I work nights) but good 'ol Chicago traffic was heavy again....most speed I got was 40 MPH on short bursts. LOL!
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:47 PM   #85
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I had a factory installed rear spoiler on my old 1980 Pontiac Bonneville Safari wagon. A friend of my mother's had the exact same car, but hers was a 1978 Pontiac Catalina Safari (same car, different trim). The Catalina did not have the rear spoiler. I had driven both cars and the spoiler did not really change the handling of either car. I don't know if it changed the mileage as I believe the cars were equipped with different engines. The Bonneville had a big block 4.9 liter V8, and I believe the Catalina had a small block 5.7 liter engine.

The biggest noticeable difference was that the rear window stayed cleaner in the car with the spoiler, and remained clearer and drier when driving in the rain.
I'm assuming it had a rear deflector similar to this one?:
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:52 PM   #86
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I'm assuming it had a rear deflector similar to this one?:
That looks almost exactly like my old Bonneville. My wagon was 2 tone though. It was garnet red like yours on the bottom, and dark garnet red on the top. I had a dark red interior.

-Jay
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:04 PM   #87
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That looks almost exactly like my old Bonneville. My wagon was 2 tone though. It was garnet red like yours on the bottom, and dark garnet red on the top. I had a dark red interior.

-Jay
That thing on the back isn't a spoiler. I'm not sure what the automotive guys are calling it, but it's there to act like a wing slat to push the air from the roof to aft windscreen. It's purpose is similar to what we're trying to achieve with the VGs but acts in a different fashion.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:39 PM   #88
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The deflector on the back of old station wagons was simply to keep the rear window clear and to deflect exhaust. I remember them well. Most of the old wagons I rode in didn't have air conditioning (1960's). You drove with the back window open and if you didn't have the deflector, exhaust fumes tended to infiltrate through the open back.

The thing to remember about this whole discussion about vortex generators is that there is a trade off between drag reduction from the vortex generators and increased drag from the VG themselves. They have to go someplace where they will provide a net gain in performance. Airplanes usually get VG to fix a specific problem area, and they are usually put on after the fact because they are not free.

That said, I have a two box vehicle and a one box (minivan) that I have contemplated putting putting VGs on for years. The Airtab flush VG solves a problem on the sides of the vehicles because I was leery about having sharp protrusions sticking out of the sides where people would walk into them (like me. I hate to see my own blood).
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:01 PM   #89
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it appears that the airtab VGs gave me around 2 mpgs. I expect that to increase since I didn't start with a full install on the roof. I also added airabs on the front and rear wheel wells.

we'll see what I get after this new tank full. I've noticed that on neutral coasting and P&G, the car will travel a little further than before especially on downhill coasting. I like them airtabs.
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:26 PM   #90
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it appears that the airtab VGs gave me around 2 mpgs. I expect that to increase since I didn't start with a full install on the roof. I also added airabs on the front and rear wheel wells.

we'll see what I get after this new tank full. I've noticed that on neutral coasting and P&G, the car will travel a little further than before especially on downhill coasting. I like them airtabs.
did you post pics ???
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