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Old 12-09-2007, 02:14 AM   #101
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Hello -

I did my magneto-airtabs :

Attachment 1121

On the website, I thought that I wouldn't like them aesthetically. But, they have already grown on me. They haven't fallen off at 65 MPH, so I think I am ok with the magent solution for the roof (and the hood).

For side, non-magnetic applications (gravity and plastic body panels), I think I will install more of them as follows :

Attachment 1122

The one problem is that they are designed for flat surfaces, so they have limited applications on curved passenger car surfaces. The gooves on my roof limited my application. That made me ask this question. Would they still work if I attached them like so :

Attachment 1123

Attachment 1124

Assuming for the moment that there is no vibration, would this be a better application, or would the lack of a surface underneath the end of the tabs sabotage the positive aero effect?

CarloSW2
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:29 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
I teach six schools were I have to drive 650 miles one way to do it. So, if I could improve my FE from 11 to 12 MPG at $3.50 a gallon of diesel, I'll have got the cost of some of the Airtabs back, depending upon how many I use. If there's some stability to be gained, I'd like that too.
Besides the airtabs...try this?

www.oilcrusher.5u.com

ListerEngine forum:

"I had a horse trader cowboy from west Okla., call me one night? He was not a farmer, nor had time to press seeds. He had 3 Duramax Chevys pulling horses all over the USA. He said the $3.00 fuel was killing his profits. ?What can I do he pleaded?. Well off the top of my head ,, I told him to go to the store and buy a cheap gallon of cooking oil.. Take it home and mix it with 2 gallons of gas and add that mixture to his 40 gallon pu tank.. Well he called me several days later, wanting to pay me for my help. He said his pu went from 12mpg to 18mpg on his first tank."

50% gains are hard to come by?
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Old 12-09-2007, 06:15 AM   #103
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Hmm... Interesting.

50% gain? Kind of like that guy with the gain from the Airtabs being 100%, I'd be skeptical. Might give it try though. Put it on my list.

You have a link for that statement?

Currently, I collect all my used engine oil from our cars, the race bikes, and the bus, I run it all through some thing to clean it up a bit, then put it in the diesel fuel tank. Used engine oil has more BTU's than diesel, 135k-140k per gallon compared to petrol diesel at under 129k. I don't know if I'd use that in a 6.0 Power Stroke, but the 7.3's would probably run on dirt and water if you mixed it right.

I love the magneto Airtabs. That's really a great idea. Unforunately, my trailer has full fiberglass walls and the bus has an aluminum skin. Even the hood of most Ford vans are composite. I might use the idea for our Ford Focus though.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:10 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugyNA View Post
Besides the airtabs...try this?

www.oilcrusher.5u.com

ListerEngine forum:

"I had a horse trader cowboy from west Okla., call me one night? He was not a farmer, nor had time to press seeds. He had 3 Duramax Chevys pulling horses all over the USA. He said the $3.00 fuel was killing his profits. ?What can I do he pleaded?. Well off the top of my head ,, I told him to go to the store and buy a cheap gallon of cooking oil.. Take it home and mix it with 2 gallons of gas and add that mixture to his 40 gallon pu tank.. Well he called me several days later, wanting to pay me for my help. He said his pu went from 12mpg to 18mpg on his first tank."

50% gains are hard to come by?
Ok, I found that thread.

I'm reading with great interest.

Thank you!!!!!
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:48 AM   #105
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There are whole websites (www.veggievan.org) and major forums in big truck websites (www.thedieselstop) dedicated to the use of homebrew bio-diesel and waste vegetable oil (the call it WVO) in diesels. Herr Doktor Diesel's original engine ran on peanut oil. Google will result in an avalanche of links.

Not recommended for cold weather as you might imagine. Many WVO trucks start on dino-diesel and warm up the engine and WVO system then switch over. Before you shut down you switch back to dino-diesel for the next startup.

I've never bothered with it because:
a) There isn't that much free WVO around to be had
b) I despised chemstry labs
c) My injectors are $400 a pop to overhaul and I have eight

Back on topic, there a lot of measures that work OK on egregiously bad shapes (a Jeep) that aren't worth the effort on a fairly slick shape. As always, valid experimental data gets the last word although I simply don't believe they will make a gas pickup get 30 MPG.
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Old 12-09-2007, 08:50 AM   #106
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Yeah, manufacturing my own biodiesel doesn't trip my trigger. That would be a constant process of work, and, like most people, I have tasks to do. Additionally, I'm not going to carry all my fuel on board during a long trip. It's not practical.

If I can make improvements to the overall shape of the vehicle that would enhance air flow, etc. that would reap continued dividends, regardless of the fuel source.

Big Dave, you have the conveyor belt air dam, right? I find that very, very interesting. I've been doing a lot of thinking about the underside of my bus, pictures of the bus and my previous, smaller trailer, and even the underside of the trailer.

Again, anything I can do aerodynamically reaps dividends each time I go out. Maybe the trailer would benefit from an air dam?
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:16 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
Ok, I found that thread.

I'm reading with great interest.

Thank you!!!!!

Another link (discussion) with other links:

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=1734.0

Some are also trying 8 to 16 oz biodiesel or straight veggie oil from the grocery in gas engines.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:59 AM   #108
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Yeah, after the quote you posted up about the guy increasing mileage so much pulling horse trailers, I came upon that thread. Thank you!

The gentleman that is harvesting the sunflower oil brings up a great point about how fuel has changed in that a lot of the older "good stuff" is no longer in fuels. I know that in the early 90's, a racing fuel manufacturer we were working with was making some additives for use if we wanted to run pump gas, but now that additive doesn't do much anymore because everything is pretty much garbage anymore.

Certainly, this made the initial sound of adding something like acetone to fuels interesting to me, but I don't think it's been completely exciting as of yet.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:21 AM   #109
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Back in my college days when gas was 25 cents a gallon a professor said to try some home heating oil in the gas and when I did in my old Rambler American it helps a little but on colder days it would smoke a lot until it warmed up and on warm days it had trouble shutting off - kept on running ha ha. Basically if you are adding oil to the gas you provide some upper cylinder lube and some more energy to the fuel to burn. What you want to watch out for is fouling the cat and O2 sensors.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:02 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
Hello -

I did my magneto-airtabs :

Attachment 1121

On the website, I thought that I wouldn't like them aesthetically. But, they have already grown on me. They haven't fallen off at 65 MPH, so I think I am ok with the magent solution for the roof (and the hood).

For side, non-magnetic applications (gravity and plastic body panels), I think I will install more of them as follows :

Attachment 1122

The one problem is that they are designed for flat surfaces, so they have limited applications on curved passenger car surfaces. The gooves on my roof limited my application. That made me ask this question. Would they still work if I attached them like so :

Attachment 1123

Attachment 1124

Assuming for the moment that there is no vibration, would this be a better application, or would the lack of a surface underneath the end of the tabs sabotage the positive aero effect?

CarloSW2
You usually want to keep them away from the very edge. They are supposed to be located like you did on the roof to stop the separation...so you would put them on the side windows themselves. I too grew used to mine and don't even notice them much anymore...had them on just the roof like you...finally stuck three on each side near the rear.

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