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Old 04-26-2018, 12:10 AM   #11
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There's a future risk for any vehicle that's eligible for taxation, the government will not loose money and pollution is an easy excuse to raise or lower taxes. Guess which category of vehicles just saw the biggest jump in company car tax? Yep, fully electric. Guess which cars now cost the same as dirty petrol and dirty diesel cars to tax? Yep hybrids, there's no easy way, and no free lunch for us sadly.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:04 AM   #12
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In our little corner of the world diesel is about 9% higher priced than regular. That lessens it's advantage somewhat. I don't know why it is higher priced other than they can get away with it. My dad used to say the diesel fuel was the dregs from the oil barrel and cost less to provide than gasoline. My first memory of buying fuel was about 47 years ago. Gasoline was 27.9 cents a gallon when I spent a whopping 17 cents to fill my Honda CT-70. I don't remember exactly but diesel was less than twenty cents a gallon.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:03 AM   #13
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I can't read the site without paying but hope it's good news long term.
Bosch is claiming they can lower NOx through air flow, temperature control, and EGR.

I am guessing it is a lower compression engine like Mazda's SkyActiv-D. That one could meet most of the world's emission regulations without SCR, but couldn't be made to pass the EPA without compromising performance and/or efficiency.

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This is a classic case of being misled and influenced by the media. The auto industry is really annoyed that people are being discouraged from buying new clean diesels, and sadly, C02 emissions have risen for the first time in the UK for decades as a result.
The diesel companies brought it on themselves with the cheating and lobbying for laxer emission regulations. The cheating broke the public's trust, and they don't want to live and work in smoggy cities.

It is a shame, because I think diesel engines are the best bet for going from petroleum to some renewable and sustainable fuel.

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Here's an interesting fact for you, discovered after real world testing just after the emissions scandal :

If you take the 10% cleanest diesels and compare them to the 10% dirtiest petrols, the N0X emissions of the petrol cars are double that of the diesels. There are no winners or loosers, if you don't like pollution, stop driving a fossil fueled car, and stop blaming diesel for pollution.
They had too find the worst petrols to compare to the cleanest diesels. Were the petrols also over 20 years old, and the diesels new?

Petrols do exceed the NOx limits when tested on the road. Generally it is around 10% or so more. Diesels generally exceed it by more. Sometimes a lot more, like multiple times the limit.

Diesel can be made clean, and petrols have areas where they can be improved. From the little said by Bosch, I have my doubts about their fix. A major truck company nearly went under chasing a non-SCR solution here. I also have doubts about Mazda's HCCI engine. Both sound too good to be true.

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In our little corner of the world diesel is about 9% higher priced than regular. That lessens it's advantage somewhat. I don't know why it is higher priced other than they can get away with it. My dad used to say the diesel fuel was the dregs from the oil barrel and cost less to provide than gasoline. My first memory of buying fuel was about 47 years ago. Gasoline was 27.9 cents a gallon when I spent a whopping 17 cents to fill my Honda CT-70. I don't remember exactly but diesel was less than twenty cents a gallon.
Your father was mostly correct. Getting gasoline from crude required more refining. Even when the crude source was rich in native gasoline, refining was needed because that gas was a much lower octane than what engines need. Getting diesel was mostly just distilling it off.

But things change. ULSD required more refining. The cost increase for that was small, but the diesel made by US refineries was now acceptable for use in other markets. Before there was an over supply of diesel in the US, with only seasonal price changes from competition with the heating oil market. Now that over supply is being exported. So prices have gone up as supply went down.

On top of that, the boom in crude production from fracking is a light crude. Great for gasoline, but poor for diesel. Getting diesel from it is technically possible, but with more refining like is used for gasoline now. This means we get less diesel from a barrel of it than a heavy crude, like Saudi and Venezuelian crude. There is also inefficiencies in refining it, because the Gulf coast refineries that it is easiest to ship this tight oil too were designed for processing heavy, sour crude.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:23 AM   #14
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I was listening to an oil expert this morning, talking about the increase in oil prices and where they thought they were heading. She said there was an infrastructure problem in the US in that the area where the shale oil is being fracked does not have enough pipeline capacity to handle all the oil that can be produced. With more capacity the shale producers could force OPECs prices down.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:30 AM   #15
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My first memory of buying fuel was about 47 years ago. Gasoline was 27.9 cents a gallon when I spent a whopping 17 cents to fill my Honda CT-70. I don't remember exactly but diesel was less than twenty cents a gallon.
When I first started driving petrol cost 1/25th the price it is now! And it was still very expensive!!
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:54 AM   #16
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Petrol/diesel is still cheap, even in the UK, when compared to other food and fluids. For example, I'm charged £2 for a 25 ml shot in my local, that's £80 a litre V's £1.28 for petrol. I think that works out at 62.5 times more, which is alot.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:59 AM   #17
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In our little corner of the world diesel is about 9% higher priced than regular. That lessens it's advantage somewhat.
I think even with a 9% increase, people would realise the huge cost savings, if more diesels were available. You'll see a minimum of 25% increase in economy, 50% more likely, even up to 100% in some cases depending on vehicle choice. 30 MPG to 60 MPG is an epic difference for someone who spends alot on fuel, the 9% increase wouldn't even register in most cases.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:40 AM   #18
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In our little corner of the world diesel is about 9% higher priced than regular...
Just as a data point, my diesel engine added about 10% to the price of my vehicle. However, due to lower fuel consumption and lower pump prices (compared to premium unleaded gasoline), my meticulous records say my fuel savings will pay off that engine premium in about 5.5 to 6 years total, or about 119,392 to 127,853 km (about 74,023 to 79,268 miles) of driving. After that, my diesel engine will save me over CAD$900 a year in fuel costs.

Considering I kept my previous vehicle 18 years, that means my current Audi Q5 diesel could save me over $11,000 in fuel over the life of the vehicle.

Granted, this depends very much on fuel costs in your locale (I live in Canada), and your driving style (I deliberately drive to be fuel efficient). Here, diesel fuel usually sells for less that regular unleaded gas.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:23 AM   #19
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I drive about 700 miles a month. It would take me quite a long time to reach a paid off point to begin gaining benefit. I do have a bit of buyer's remorse on my RAV4. If/when I replace it I'd consider a diesel although the choices are pretty limited, now at least. I'd definitely go for a more efficient option of one form or another.
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:19 PM   #20
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I drive about 700 miles a month. It would take me quite a long time to reach a paid off point to begin gaining benefit. I do have a bit of buyer's remorse on my RAV4. If/when I replace it I'd consider a diesel although the choices are pretty limited, now at least. I'd definitely go for a more efficient option of one form or another.
Any premium paid for a diesel option will be returned come resale time, they don't depreciate any more or less than a petrol model. Just as a point of interest, the diesel RAV 4s tracking on fuelly are around 30% more efficient than the petrol model, though I'm assuming they are not available on your side of the pond anyway.
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