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Old 04-26-2018, 05:29 PM   #21
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If these alleged new "clean" diesel technologies prove to be true, then I suspect a big "about face" will happen in the automotive industry, and more diesel engine options will be available. The North American "dirty diesel" image will have been shaken.

I'd love my next vehicle to be a diesel Porsche Cayenne. Yah, I know, VAG said they're out of diesel and going electric. That's a direct result of the Dieselgate scandal. They might change their tune if diesel is shown to be genuinely a lot cleaner than gasoline ICE. After all, it's just profit to be taken where there's a market.

Here's to hoping!
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:08 AM   #22
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Nope, we don't have diesel RAV and I'm not sure if there are any diesel Toyotas offered. Maybe in the pickup but I don't think so.
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:12 AM   #23
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I was listening to an oil expert this morning, talking about the increase in oil prices and where they thought they were heading. She said there was an infrastructure problem in the US in that the area where the shale oil is being fracked does not have enough pipeline capacity to handle all the oil that can be produced. With more capacity the shale producers could force OPECs prices down.
They can ship it by rail, and likely are, but that raises cost. Then there is the refining infrastructure issue. Most of theis oil, because of current infrastructure is easier/cheaper to ship to the Gulf Coast. These refineries were set up for heavier crude that has more sulfur. They are inefficient at processing lighter and sweeter oil, so they only buy the shale oil* once it has been discounted by the producers. They may not be able to process a 100% load of it, and have to mix it with heavy stuff. Someone is building a refinery for light crude there.

Then at the beginning of the production chain there is another issue. Fracked wells aren't productive long term. To keep production up, new wells need to be drilled. Output from those fields is increasing, but output per well is dropping in the area.

*This term can be confusing. The industry refers to it as tight oil, which is conventional oil that can't be extracted by conventional means. Thus the need for fracking. The potential confusion of using shale oil arises because there is an unconventional oil known as oil shale.

It is rock layers that contain kerogen, a waxy, solid hydrogen carbon. We can dig it up and render a usable crude from it like tar sands, but for more effort and mess. The resulting crude is also known as shale oil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale

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Nope, we don't have diesel RAV and I'm not sure if there are any diesel Toyotas offered. Maybe in the pickup but I don't think so.
Toyota did release a new diesel engine a few years ago, a 2.8L IRRC. I think it is in the Land Cruiser and a pick up in Asia. They are going with hybrids for nearly everywhere else, even Europe. There is talk that the next Rav4 hybrid will have a plug in version.

Mazda is going to try diesel again in North America with the next CX-5. If the SkyActiv-X lives up to the hype, the cars are going to stick with gasoline.

I'd like diesel to stick around, and emissions improve since I do think we might need it for the switch to renewable fuels. It is going to become, and remain, a minor player in personal vehicles though.

In much of the US, diesel costs more than premium gasoline. You some how have to convince people to pay more for the car when the station prices are broadcasting that. California is one of the places where diesel is cheaper, but they have great incentives to buy plug ins. Then you aren't going to convince people diesels are cleaner while asshats are still rolling coal.

Diesels could succeed in pick up trucks and SUVs here. Ford has a smaller diesel in the F150 now, and plan a hybrid for 2020. That will interesting to compare. GM has a 4 cylinder in the Colorado, and a six coming to the Silverado next year.

China is becoming the biggest car market in the world, and they are strongly pushing for plug ins and hybrids. they aren't going to embrace diesels as they are just cleaning up their air from the coal plants and diesels they have now.

I don't know India's policy stance on cars, but the people are choosing hybrids. About 10% of Camries sold in the US are the hybrid model. It's 90% in India.
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Old 04-27-2018, 02:38 PM   #24
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The specifics of the system can be found here: Bosch says it has solved diesel NOx problem; as low as 13 mg NOx/km even under RDE; refining existing technologies - Green Car Congress

It is actually anything new. Just optimization of technologies already available. It makes use SCR, but BMW has a similar system with a NOx trap.

Since it is mostly a software improvement, there isn't a cost increase for new emission control parts. It won't reduce the cost over current systems, just an improvement in operation.

It might not be enough to save diesels versus mild hybridization of gas cars.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:22 AM   #25
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Imagine the potential though, hybrid diesel, or even EV with diesel generator, if emissions are as low as they claim, then diesel with be far better with hybrid systems, as you'll actually get decent fuel economy on the highway, not just driving in urban areas.
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:11 AM   #26
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An plug in EV with a diesel range extender would be a great vehicle. The law could make using the range extender illegal in city centres if need be, where pure EV would be required.
A diesel generator could be optimised to produce very low emissions, and the DPF could last for years.
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Old 04-28-2018, 07:47 AM   #27
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There is just the cost hurdle.
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Old 04-28-2018, 08:49 AM   #28
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Bosch's report.
http://www.autonews.com/assets/pdf/bosch-nox-report.pdf
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Old 04-28-2018, 09:01 AM   #29
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We already have EV London taxis here with petrol range extenders. Clean diesel could be a natural progression.
https://www.levc.com/
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:40 AM   #30
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Imagine the potential though, hybrid diesel, or even EV with diesel generator, if emissions are as low as they claim, then diesel with be far better with hybrid systems, as you'll actually get decent fuel economy on the highway, not just driving in urban areas.
From all the research I've done -- limited, and looking at luxury vehicles only -- when comparing a gasoline hybrid to the identical vehicle except with a diesel engine, diesel came out the clear winner in terms of lower purchase price, and lower fuel costs over the lifetime of the vehicle. I can't imagine a scenario if which adding the electric propulsion and storage system would lower the vehicle's purchase price, or be offset by fuel savings over the life of the vehicle.

My research is the reason why I'm driving a diesel and not a hybrid. When I compared my 2015 Audi Q5 3.0L diesel to the equivalent gas/electric hybrid, the hybrid had only slightly better fuel economy in the city, but was otherwise worse in all respects compared to the diesel.

I remain a fan of (properly designed and operating) diesel over today's gasoline or gasoline/electric hybrids.

Mind you, that might change after I get my dieselgate fix (a requirement to get the settlement cash of CAD$7,500.)
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