EPA accuses Fiat Chrysler of using software to allow excess pollution in diesels - Fuelly Forums

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Old 01-12-2017, 04:57 PM   #1
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EPA accuses Fiat Chrysler of using software to allow excess pollution in diesels

And OF COURSE they target the more efficient 3.0 V6 diesel used in the light duty Ram and Jeep models and not the larger V8+ Cummins used in heavy duty trucks for decades (<-- do they even have any regs for those anyway?)!



All relevant Jalopnik articles from today on the issue (in order):

The EPA Accuses Fiat Chrysler Of Using Software To Allow Excess Diesel Pollution (Updated)

Everything We Know So Far About Jeep And Ram's Alleged Diesel Cheating (Updated)

Fiat Chrysler Boss Says It's 'Hogwash' To Think They Cheated Like Volkswagen

Why Fiat Chrysler's Diesel 'Cheating' Might Not Be Anywhere Near As Bad As Volkswagen's
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:24 AM   #2
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They should target the more efficient 3.0 V6 diesel used in the light duty Ram and Jeep models and not the larger V8+ Cummins (we know they pollute)
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:58 AM   #3
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Sadly, it's more about the "cheating" than the amount of pollution, which in fairness is what it SHOULD be about. As I've said many a time before, after real world testing, VW group cars were better than almost every other car maker out there.

Even the Ford Focus with a tiny ECO-boost 1.0 litre engine was the worst petrol car polluter, barely meeting Euro 3 standards. The scandal has become more about big money making lawsuits and how rich lawyers can make themselves rather than the "real world" emissions unfortunately.
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Old 01-14-2017, 09:41 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Draigflag View Post
Sadly, it's more about the "cheating" than the amount of pollution...The scandal has become more about big money making lawsuits and how rich lawyers can make themselves rather than the "real world" emissions unfortunately.
So sad, but true, at least in North America. It appears as though ignorance has overcome Washington, as their talking heads proclaim they're "taking dirty cars off the road", when in fact, they're not addressing emissions at all! It's all about following the process, and not violating the legal definition of a banned "cheat device."

Shortly after Dieselgate exploded onto the scene in September 2015, the U.K. government performed their own emissions tests under real-world conditions, and they discovered that all diesels tested, regardless of brand or model, exceeded lab-legal emission limits when operating in the real world. They then tested gasoline (petrol) vehicles and discovered that almost all vehicles did the same, regardless of brand or model.

The reality is that virtually all vehicles on the road are designed to meet the legal requirements, as determined by a specific in-lab-only test, while generating far more pollution out of the lab. In the USA, that's unimportant. So long as you follow the rules (don't break the law by employing the legal definition of a "cheat device"), then all is well.

So VAG (the Volkswagen Audi Group) gets persecuted and raked over the coals, like a witch hunt, while a blind eye is turned to virtually everyone else, and business goes on as usual.

What's worse, at least in North America, is that now authorities are scrutinizing all diesels applying for US certification (Canada just follows the US). For example, the 2017 Mercedes GLC will not offer a diesel option in North America because it failed the certification process. Meanwhile, no such scrutiny is being applied to gasoline (petrol) vehicles.

It's FUBAR.
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Old 01-14-2017, 10:11 AM   #5
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Well luckily people have common sense here, and get over things pretty quick. 2016 for example was a record breaking year for sales of VW, they are back at the N0 1 position of best selling brand in the World. You'll always get the narrow minded minority, who are probably too lazy to research the facts, but luckily, most people see the bigger picture.

A spokesperson for VW stated how pleased they were with the results of the real world testing, some kind of redemption after the diesel gate scandal perhaps, it actually probably did VW a big favour, as anyone looking for a "clean" low emission diesel looking at the data will no doubt go for a VW group car.

The EQUA index is actually really interesting, they compile MPG data too, and no doubt car manufactures will start quoting these "real world" figures soon. Note the new Prius is rated at just 48 MPG, and the Outlander hybrid, advertised as getting 148 MPG, is rated at just 37 MPG, lower than the diesel model at 38 MPG.

EQUA Index - Real-world driving data
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Old 01-14-2017, 10:39 AM   #6
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I just want to add, when the emission laws measure real-world emissions, then vehicle manufacturers will design and optimize their vehicles to meet that criterion, and we'll get reduced real-world pollution. Mind you, if you take those vehicles and put them in the old (and useless) in-lab-only test, you might find they're horrible in-lab polluters.

An article I read indicated that if/when countries change over to real-world emissions, we ironically might see smaller engines disappear. For example, a 1-liter engine might do very well in the lab, but be terrible in the real world. This has proven to be the case with a number of small engines tested. We see this with widespread reports of 3.0L diesels being more fuel efficient in the real world than their 2.0L diesel counterpart, but on paper (and in the lab), the 2.0L is more efficient. Guess what most consumers will buy? The less efficient engine with the better paperwork.

FWIW, I used Fuelly to research real users' real numbers before I bought my car. It's a big reason I got a 3.0L diesel engine (the only diesel option available here) instead of a 2.0L gasoline (petrol) option or the 2.0L gasoline/electric hybrid option. The diesel performed better in the real world than even the hybrid! I don't regret my decision. One one 500+ mile trip, I attain a true (nearly) 52 MPG US (4.54L/100km, 62.2 MPG Imp) with my diesel SUV.
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:02 AM   #7
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I was reading my financial paper and noticed that Renault stock has gone down because they too have emission problems. Lucky for us they only sell them in 3rd world countries in North America or the Yankees would get the blame.
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:59 PM   #8
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It's rather unlucky there are no French cars over there, you guys are missing out big time.

Most manufacturers will be scrutinised over the emissions scandal, not just Renault and VW.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:40 PM   #9
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Lots of French built cars in North America, in scrap heaps in Canada and the U.S. or on the road in the poverty stricken countries that compose a portion of the Continent
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:08 PM   #10
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Received an email from fuelly that led me to this thread but the post is not here. Has this happened to others as well?

"What third World countries in North America do Renault sell cars? I'm intrigued." was the message.

Did someone actually look up the many countries in North America?? Did they also consider the Caribbean as well?? Now I'm intrigued. LOL
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