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Old 09-09-2007, 08:45 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
But, if gas prices go down, how soon will we forget?

CarloSW2
And how far down? Gas drops 15 cents and people cheer.... By the way - it's still $2.50
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:26 PM   #72
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I would agree with that, he has a funny style. This is the same guy who conceived the "Dyson sphere" FYI:
"One should expect that, within a few thousand years of its entering the stage of industrial development, any intelligent species should be found occupying an artificial biosphere which completely surrounds its parent star"

I didn't see it as a case against man made climate change though, quite the contrary. He doesn't seem to think it is a big deal because we can easily make the climate do whatever we want by changing agricultural practices.



That has nothing to do with weather gw exists or not.
Never argued that it doesn't exist (if you look at Dysons article, he makes the interesting statement that global warming as such doesn't exist, since the entire globe hasn't warmed, only the arctic regions have... particularly in the northern hemisphere) However, I'm contending the cause of the climate change.... if humans are the cause, it's more to do with land use then it has to do with CO2 emissions.

As for the research money (not connected to the article BTW), thats in answer to the statement that no reasearch is being done to dispute the CO2 induced climate change theory. The reason for this IMHO is lack of funding.

As for hypermiling.... it's looking more and more like our crude resources are becoming more limited. If so, then we all must learn to consume fuel wisely if we want to continue driving around. The alternatives out there don't look very promising.
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:00 PM   #73
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Never argued that it doesn't exist (if you look at Dysons article, he makes the interesting statement that global warming as such doesn't exist, since the entire globe hasn't warmed, only the arctic regions have... particularly in the northern hemisphere) However, I'm contending the cause of the climate change.... if humans are the cause, it's more to do with land use then it has to do with CO2 emissions.

As for the research money (not connected to the article BTW), thats in answer to the statement that no reasearch is being done to dispute the CO2 induced climate change theory. The reason for this IMHO is lack of funding.

As for hypermiling.... it's looking more and more like our crude resources are becoming more limited. If so, then we all must learn to consume fuel wisely if we want to continue driving around. The alternatives out there don't look very promising.
VERY WELL SAID!!!
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:25 AM   #74
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Alot of people are trying to save $$. It is totally legitimate to limit your mods to ones that have a "payback period". And guess what, it's working :

Vehicle fuel economy surges toward record - August 31, 2007
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...708310344/1014


But, if gas prices go down, how soon will we forget?
makes me wonder if this trend will continue. sure, prices are down, but the economy likely influences conservation and FE purchases.

what if the economy rebounds and prices stay relatively low? i've heard talk of people driving their parked gas hogs more, or even going to buy a new one.

i have no issue with personal choice, but what if the masses were to start using inefficient vehicles as daily drivers again?...
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Old 11-09-2008, 05:23 AM   #75
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They will. Then, either demand will drive the price up again, leaving us no worse off than if the price stayed up, or the price will stay low and we'll all buy beer instead of gas.
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Old 11-09-2008, 06:40 AM   #76
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Or someone will develop a powertrain that actually makes all vehicles on the planet, with wheels, more efficient. Maybe even a lot more efficient.

Don't expect OPEC to allow prices to stay low. They have just slaked up to allow the recession to have a soft landing. Depressions are good for no one.

Give them another 50 years and they will own US, and we are probably dumb enough to let it happen.

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Old 11-09-2008, 07:40 PM   #77
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IMO, it depends how long this recession lasts as to how quickly people will forget and indulge in gas guzzlers again. If the new year brings growth, I'd expect usage to slowly creep up and probably get back to where it was a year ago by the end of next year. Many people that have switched to better FE vehicles will continue to use them regardless of fuel price. However, an ever-increasing world population will always increase demand by some amount.

If the recession lasts through next year, I expect there to be a much slower rise in fuel usage. People may forget a couple of bad months in a recession, but years stick with you.

As for the original debate, I don't think we can accurately depict the amount that humans are causing it until about........100-200,000 years have passed. CO2 levels have certainly been much higher during the course of earth's history, earth's temps have certainly been higher for extended periods, and yet the earth managed to still correct itself numerous times over.

I think sometimes some people just want to feel in control of everything, but the earth is more dynamic than many imagine. Not to mention that many people are so worried about glaciers shrinking but never think about what would happen if we "succeeded" in stopping global warming and cooled the planet. Hmm.......that hasn't worked out so well for humans in the past. 400 years ago we had the little ice age that bought on disease and famine that killed half the world's population, a few tens of thousands of years ago another mini ice age nearly made humans extinct (learned that today on the history channel), and the Kansan ice age, which happened about 400,000 years ago, saw glaciers covering north america as far south as Kansas. Hmm, might be hard to grow corn in iowa then.

IMO, people are just micromanaging things way too much. The earth is 4,600,000,000 years old, and we're analyzing every 1 year as if it's the craziest one in earth's history and spells doom for everything. I mean look at this graph:


There have certainly been 50-100 year periods of rapid increasing temperatures that are similar to the one we're experiencing now.

Statistics comparing previous decades can easily be misleading. But look at the last 5 years in this graph:


I think money plays a very large part in how global warming is fed to the masses. They want to strike fear so that people will buy some groovy new product. While it may be good for the environment, and I'm not saying it's bad to switch to more eco-friendly practices, they are driven more by profit than actually helping the environment. They use global warming as an angle for attraction. If they just said "it helps the environment," who is going to buy it? Striking fear of worldwide calamity in the form of burning to death in heat is a much more effective advertising ploy.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:01 PM   #78
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I think money plays a very large part in how global warming is fed to the masses. They want to strike fear so that people will buy some groovy new product. While it may be good for the environment, and I'm not saying it's bad to switch to more eco-friendly practices, they are driven more by profit than actually helping the environment. They use global warming as an angle for attraction.
fantastic post! since i started this thread, i'd like to reiterate that my stance is "not convinced." i believe we should be good stewards of the earth, but the question is are WE causing it to warm "unnaturally" and subsequently destroying creation?

what's not in question is that we are polluting our world. we should conserve, clean, and otherwise act responsibly to honor all creatures.

for some, however, buying eco friendly products can be out of reach. i'd liken them to organic foods...they ain't cheap! i've only recently been able to buy such things.
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:13 PM   #79
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More - there are still temp records, both hot and cold, that were set 100 years ago. If global warming were actually being caused by emissions of man, all records would be from the last 20 years, not from the last 100. Incidentally, our recordkeeping isn't really reliable for further than about 100 years ago. The technology to make reliable, repeatable instruments just wasn't there.
ya i notice that too, theres all sorts of heat records from the early 30's (dust bowl ring a bell to anyone?) and i doubt the 30 or so years of the industrial revolution caused that.

or take the extreme cold in the 70's...

heck where im from we had what everyones nicknamed the blizzard of 99, i remember seeing our 4 ft high chainlink fence totaly covered by snow and our front door snowed shut...

So do i believe humans have an impact on global warming? yea but a very small percentile. as others have said the sun and everything else has its natural heating and cooling cycles which would have a HUGE impact on us (especially the sun that can fit what a 1000 earths in it?)

but yes media loves to take something and blow it way out of proportion and freak everyone out.

hate to say it but i think with gas being cheap again gas guzzlers are gonna be out more...
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Old 11-10-2008, 04:34 PM   #80
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hate to say it but i think with gas being cheap again gas guzzlers are gonna be out more...

Don't worry, it won't stay cheap for long. Obama has already promised to reinstate the executive order banning offshore drilling and expanded domestic production.

-Jay
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