GM's idiocy shown in small car "greenwashing" bait & switch

[cfg83]

theclencher -

Originally Posted by theclencher

I appreciate seat belt effectiveness but I don't like their use legislated as mandatory. Same with helmets. It's America dang it. The slippery slope could lead to legislated diet and exercise requirements too, among other Big Brother madness.

But just by posting, haven't we already been Big-Brothered?

My idea is to make the law in order to create a viable "small car class". I want to make it easier to bring the "leetle cars" from other countries here. They would still have to be modified for emissions, but at least their crash ratings would become easier to meet.

I can't see a relaxation in the safety laws as a way to bring smaller cars to the US. From a consumer standpoint, I think the perception would be way too negative.

I *don't* like wearing seat belts because I was raised without them. They are not comfortable to me. But I always will, because I know what the consequences are.

I also didn't like the helmet law when it came out in California. Ruined that "hair in the wind" joy of riding a motorcycle. But I couldn't argue with the logic.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

Coyote X -

Originally Posted by Coyote X

They did that in the 70s on some cars, they didn't start unless the seatbelt was latched on any seat that was occupied. All most people did was latch the belt on the seat then sit on it

That's what my Dad used to do! The good old days.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

theclencher -

Originally Posted by theclencher

...

cfq: I don't see omitting ABS, air bags, electronic stability controls, and other added on stuff as compromises in safety. I think a good responsive vehicle with a sturdy structure gets the job done. Of course that puts the onus of safety back on the driver and we can't have that can we???

I agree that cars should have all that stuff missing in the base offering. Offer it for the people who want them.

CarloSW2

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by omgwtfbyobbq

Very cool! What about using actuators controlled by a computer that can measure acceleration and change the dampening rate? There's plenty of cool stuff out there (Bose EM suspension) that probably doesn't cost a whole lot more than conventional, but won't be used because big manufacturers don't want to pay royalties.

Missed this earlier :P They would probably use accelerometers to handle that Perhaps even electro-magnet field detection to monitor body position (much like how Honda and a few other mfr's monitor for side airbag/curtain deployment).

And that bose suspension is really cool But unless they can get around the patents (something like getting around the hemisphereical head design), I agree it won't happen on a large scale until the patent expires.

I *don't* like wearing seat belts because I was raised without them. They are not comfortable to me. But I always will, because I know what the consequences are.

Perhaps it's generational - but I can't get comfortable without the seatbelt on... But I do remember as a little kid not always wearing my belt :P

I think ABS is not required, but try finding a car without.

I used to be against ABS.... My last car didn't have it. My current car does. And I am fairly certain it saved my life - or at least my ***. It saved a friend of mine from slamming into someone that decided to stop on the highway - that is until the person behind him slammed into his car :/ If I recall, statistically ABS doesn't help the overall number of accidents... Something about people waiting longer to brake because they know they have ABS :/ But I'm happy that I have it now...

I honestly think the subcompacts and mini cars will never truthfully catch on in America. And the days of a car with no air bags and other safety equipment are numbered.

That's like an answer followed by a question all in one -- and I agree. Which is unfortunate. UNLESS fuel costs increase sharply - that is, it hurts people's pockets while until they move to a smaller car. But that type of increase is something like $2.50 to $4.50 or even $5.00 within a month or two. I really don't know, just a somewhat uneducated prediction.

[cfg83]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

....


Perhaps it's generational - but I can't get comfortable without the seatbelt on... But I do remember as a little kid not always wearing my belt :P

That is egg-zactly what my younger friend said to me. The logical part of my brain tells me "F=ma stew-peed", and I obey. But, it just feels nicer to not have one on.

I used to be against ABS.... My last car didn't have it. My current car does. And I am fairly certain it saved my life - or at least my ***. It saved a friend of mine from slamming into someone that decided to stop on the highway - that is until the person behind him slammed into his car :/ If I recall, statistically ABS doesn't help the overall number of accidents... Something about people waiting longer to brake because they know they have ABS :/ But I'm happy that I have it now...

Same here. One reason why I don't like ABS is that I pump the brakes to "signal" the car following me when I perceive danger ahead. I have heard that this is bad for ABS, but I would rather pump the brakes than risk being rear ended (this is a safety mod I want to do, on-demand flashing brakelights). But, if I get a new car when the SW2 wears out, it will most likely have ABS and airbags. Oh well.

EDIT : One thing I have heard is that ABS doesn't help bad drivers. If a bad driver has ABS, they push the limits of the technology more, and still get into accidents.

CarloSW2

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Oly isht! It's all clear now. I found this by way of GCC. Looking into it, it seems to check out. For instance, I saw that according to Yahoo, State Street Corp has ~$2.5 billion invested in GM. According to the feds, at the end of 2007 they had $5 billion invested in Chevron, ~$12 billion invested in Exxon Mobil Corp, $2.5 billion in Conoco-Phillips, etc...

So they have $2.5 billion in a company that historically produces vehicles with the worst fuel efficiency. I wonder what this does to the (at least) $15 billion worth they have invested in companies that supply said vehicles with fuel? It is, after all, a relatively inelastic commodity in terms of supply and demand.

Lutz is an idiot like a fox. Keeping price up means keeping profits up...

Edit - This is just too good, I couldn't have made anything like this up!

General Motors has urged investors to reject all 10 of the shareholder proposals for its June 5 annual meeting and to re-elect its board.

The proposals include requiring disclosure of political donations, cutting emissions of greenhouse gases and making it easier for smaller shareholders to elect directors, GM said Friday in a regulatory filing.

Emphasis added.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

^bump^

[MetroMPG]

I was aware of GM's oil ties. No surprises there.

This and other companies will be dragged kicking and screaming into producing/offering more efficient products, or they will continue to become more and more irellevant and finally go out of business.

[Peakster]

My question:

Why is it that car companies were able to pump out all sorts of good mpg cars in the early 80s, but don't seem to be doing it now? Surely it was a huge change for people to go from a 7mpg 20-foot Cadillac in the 1970s, to little cars like the Cimarron, Fiero, Lynx, Omni... etc. Now, even with current gas prices, people still want their land yachts (ie, the Suburbans, Expeditions, Durangos). Even today's entry-level cars (such as the Aveo, Caliber & Focus) have thirstier engines than entry level cars 25 years ago.

I just don't get it.

[psyshack]

Originally Posted by Peakster

My question:

Why is it that car companies were able to pump out all sorts of good mpg cars in the early 80s, but don't seem to be doing it now? Surely it was a huge change for people to go from a 7mpg 20-foot Cadillac in the 1970s, to little cars like the Cimarron, Fiero, Lynx, Omni... etc. Now, even with current gas prices, people still want their land yachts (ie, the Suburbans, Expeditions, Durangos). Even today's entry-level cars (such as the Aveo, Caliber & Focus) have thirstier engines than entry level cars 25 years ago.

I just don't get it.

People didn't go from Caddy's to Metro's then and they wont now. Americans don't like tin can cars. Sure a small segment like them. A very small bunch of folks. Yaris is selling, Fit, Versa and others are selling. So go with it. People just don't want Metro's, Festiva's, Justy's or VX's. And the truth is many folks are feeling social pressure to get hybrids. When in there guts they don't want them. Nor will they drive them to any where near what can be had in mpg concerning them.

The answer in the short term is for the manufactures to start using the tech thats there. Lean Burn with the nox scrubbing cats, clean diesel's, cylinder deactivation in low load and more atkins style heads. Theres all sorts of tech not being used on a normal cars. Then theres carbon fiber, more aluminum in cars. All sorts of weight saving and strength increasing materials.

Take my Civic... There is a lot that Honda could have done to the car to improve its weight to power ratio. Not to mention the eff. of the engine. They chose not to make it a lean burn. And instead went the the hybrid way. Alum hood and trunk lid. The hood is fricking heavy on the car. Must be part of there ACE design idea. Front fenders could have been alum. Door skins Alum. Heck some of it could have been carbon fiber. Heck my 1992 Olds Delta 88 had a alum. hood and plastic fenders.

And more than the cars we drive. Our life styles need to change. Our driving habits need to change. It makes no since to me that somebody would go purchase a current hybrid then drive it like a idiot. I just have to laugh when I'm going down the hwy in the midst of my daily grind doing 53 to 57 mph and flirting with the 50 mpg mark and some idiot goes blowing by me in there hybrid doing 70 mph or faster. I can assure you this is the hybrid driver thats complaining there not getting anywhere close to EPA. But proclaiming there driving it right. Hell they aren't getting my FE. And if you think putting that same person in a metro with leather, blue tooth and such will make a diff. You have a bigger problem than they have.

I could go on,,, but it would turn into a huge ramble....

psy