In only 8 years, 100% of new Toyotas to be hybrid - Fuelly Forums

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Old 11-20-2012, 06:08 AM   #1
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In only 8 years, 100% of new Toyotas to be hybrid

Old news but I only became aware of it recently...
Toyota to go all-hybrid by 2020? | Crave - CNET
Quote:
Toyota's VP of powertrain development Masatami Takimoto has said that by 2020 hybrids would become the company's standard drivetrain, and that hybrids would account for "100 percent" of the automaker's new cars.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:03 AM   #2
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This is sad news.

My yaris usually beats the prius numbers of MOST prius drivers (Real numbers to Real numbers).

I just am having issues with the whole hybrid thing. also, what of the trucks? I know you can put a hybrid system in anything but I would think the trucks would stay just gas.

I guess they know what they are doing. Oh well, whatever.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:19 AM   #3
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This is sad news.

My yaris usually beats the prius numbers of MOST prius drivers (Real numbers to Real numbers).

I just am having issues with the whole hybrid thing. also, what of the trucks? I know you can put a hybrid system in anything but I would think the trucks would stay just gas.

I guess they know what they are doing. Oh well, whatever.
I believe Wayne Gerdes held your opinion of hybrids until he tried one.

We have to work to get the numbers we get. The vast majority want nothing to do with a manual transmission. Even if they want better gas mileage. A hybrid done right makes it easy for those numbers, and with work exceed what is possible in an unmodified ICE car.

Of course, most drivers don't really care about fuel economy enough to even adjust their behavior just slightly in the direction of efficient driving. Which is why you know Prius drivers doing worse than your Yaris. Imagine what they got in their old cars or car instead of the Prius.

Earlier this year, Ford and Toyota announced a partnership to develop a RWD hybrid system for use in trucks. The current and past hybrid trucks and SUVs were lacking in towing and payload compared to their ICE counterparts. I do think engines like the Ecoboost and diesels will still be the common solution to meeting CAFE in these vehicles for some time.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:49 AM   #4
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I know that you can do much better in a hybrid (driven right) but even with the increased mileage, the overall COO (cost of ownership) is still higher for a hybrid.

I truly hope they don't let some of their most popular cars disappear. The corollas are golden with good mileage and cheap pricing, camrys are their flagship, and the up and coming GT-86 (brz, or fr-s).

I do like the idea of the Ecoboost and am very intrigued by their 3-cyl version. I think it would be a strong contender in the MPG race though I wonder about pricing. Diesels have always been good choices not just with larger trucks but with smaller cars too.

I don't think hybrids are inherently bad but any time you take away options, you lose something. if we were to lose all the models that they have created that do very well and are not hybrids, I think we will have a net loss regardless of what "new" things they bring to the market.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:28 AM   #5
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My gf just saw a Prius C and when I checked the battery spec and was shocked that it was 0.93? KWh capacity ... I had a larger battery than that in my electric scooter that weighed 31 lbs ... Talk about a waste of technology ... Even the regular Prius had only a 1.3 kWh battery ... No wonder they didn't drive far on battery power!
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEF View Post
I know that you can do much better in a hybrid (driven right) but even with the increased mileage, the overall COO (cost of ownership) is still higher for a hybrid.
Not sure what else might factor into increased COO for hybrids vs. non-hybrid, but Toyota intends to have their hybrids on the market at the same price that a non-hybrid currently is, supposedly though sheer power of volume. Color me skeptical...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:39 PM   #7
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That statement was based pretty much soulely on the increased initial cost. I would think that if you ever had an issue with the hybrid drive, it would be an expensive mechanical fix but that is just an assumption.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:31 AM   #8
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Because of the lack of user controlled moving parts they tend NOT to break. Even reverse is just an electric motor driven function ... No gears to grind at all!
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:12 AM   #9
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My gf just saw a Prius C and when I checked the battery spec and was shocked that it was 0.93? KWh capacity ... I had a larger battery than that in my electric scooter that weighed 31 lbs ... Talk about a waste of technology ... Even the regular Prius had only a 1.3 kWh battery ... No wonder they didn't drive far on battery power!
They were never meant drive far on just EV. Hybrids still get all their power from gasoline. There is no plug. Using EV for the sake of EV just leads to lower fuel efficiency from all the conversion losses. The electrical side is a buffer to capture energy that would have been loss to braking or running the engine at less efficient rpms. It then provides power during high demand times to reduce the time the engine spends on the high end outside of the efficient sweet spot.

This allows the engine to be downsized, and use one the will spend the majority of its time in its efficient range. That's were a big percentage of hybrids gains come from, the smaller engine. The gen2 Prius I owned had a 1.5L block. It's a bigger car with a Corolla sized engine, which is Atkinsonized to increase efficiency while lowering power. Using a smaller engine alone for fuel gains is possible, but no one in the mainstream would buy it because of the acceleration, passing, and hill climbing ability such a car would have.

It's the same theory behind the use of turbos for fuel gains. Hybrids just do it better for a higher price at moment. Ecoboost is better buy, if the driver can resist the temptation of the boost. Reviewers, and most drivers can't.

The Prius c uses a smaller battery to keep costs down. In a few years, I'd love to get a used one and expand the pack.

Quote:
Because of the lack of user controlled moving parts they tend NOT to break. Even reverse is just an electric motor driven function ... No gears to grind at all!
Yep, and the regen braking(which the new Mazda6 will offer without a hybrid) appears to extend the brake and rotor life out to that of the car. Many Prii have originals at 100k. If something were to break, the cost is probably in line with fixing any transmission.

The higher purchase price is a factor now for COO, but it seems to work out the same as the ICE model, or better, currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEF
I don't think hybrids are inherently bad but any time you take away options, you lose something. if we were to lose all the models that they have created that do very well and are not hybrids, I think we will have a net loss regardless of what "new" things they bring to the market.
I agree on the taking away options. You have to keep in mind that HSD isn't Toyota's only hybrid system. they have a mild system, similar to Honda's, in use over in Japan. Like Honda's, I would think it could be mated to a manual transmission.

I don't think we'll see such in a car, but more because of the general acceptance of sticks here.

The Camry is already hybrid only in Japan. That's why there are 2 trim levels for the hybrid here. I believe this news applies more to there, where gas costs much more.
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