Volkwagon Creates Fuel Efficient Prototype - 235MPG!!! - Page 3 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 04-22-2006, 11:57 AM   #21
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Quote:More like .3kwh if you

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More like .3kwh if you accelerate at 1000 amps for about 5 seconds and accelerating slowly only saves some I squared R losses and a little pertek losses - you stillllll need the same total energy. This is not an ICE powered that burns fuel less efficiently at high power outputs.
Accelerating using 1,000 amps for five seconds would basically take you to 80 mph in this thing, from rest. That would certainly be lead foot driving.

Yes, you still will need the same total energy, but you must account for Peukert's losses when you increase the amp draw. While that hypoethetical pack of Optimas might be able to deliver 9kWh in normal driving for this car(Given the light load they would be subjected to in normal driving, 9kWh is underestimating it a bit), using 1,000 amp accelerations will lower that number due to Peukert's effect. The faster you draw current, the less amp hours will be delivered.

Thus, even if you might use roughly the same total energy to accelerate fast(a little more counting I2R losses, decreased motor efficiency at high draws, ect.), your available capacity in the battery pack will decrease.

While this car might theoretically achieve near 200 miles in normal driving, with a lead foot barreling down the highway at 100+ and accelerating fast, you might only get 30-50 miles, maybe 3-4 miles going 200!

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Your diesel analysis is very good however arriving at 31% efficiency which is what efficient ICE engines can achieve but what you neglect is the extra energy of combustion of diesel is given off as heat that can be used to keep you warm in the colder months which you are not getting as much of in an electric vehicle.
Actually, you misread it. From the place the fuel is stored to the wheels(batteries for the electric, fuel tank for the diesel), this hypoethetical electric would only need 31% of the energy the diesel version would per mile of travel, given they are driven the same speed and with similar acceleration rates. Basically, the electric would go more than three times further than the diesel would on the same amount of energy. The electric would be like driving around in an 800 mpg car.

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I however prefer to use the concept we are talking about but on a smaller scale and build a 2 wheel composite enclosed vehicle and be ready for the better batteries when then arrive. I also have the fiberglass, carbon fiber and epoxy materials along with motors and controllers and just need a lot of time to get started building.
www.speed101.com/

60 mph on roughly 500 watts of human muscle.

Imagine building such a vehicle. Bicycle tires have an exceptionally low Cr, around .0015.

Even a modest 30 kW electric drive in a 400 pound vehicle(including driver) with a 70 pound Li Ion pack would send this thing from 0-60 mph in < 5 seconds, if enough traction can be had! Range? Maybe 250-300 miles(~15 wh/mile @ 60 mph). Top speed? *laugh*

We're talking about a .12 Cd and 5 square foot frontal area or so for one of these? That's about 750W to cruise at 60 mph(increase from additonal weight to the vehicle for structural rigidity, more power, batteries, electric drive and increased losses due to having a drive system), assuming 10% losses from transmission, motor, ect.

Yeah, that would make a *GREAT* high performance motorcycle.

Wouldn't be too comfortable though.
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Old 04-23-2006, 06:50 AM   #22
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yah but

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Yeah, that would make a *GREAT* high performance motorcycle.
Wouldn't be too comfortable though.
Hey my R100S BMW goes 0 to 60 in about 3 seconds and has no problem with traction as far as the ride you design a nice seat into the body and lay back relaxed. I took dimensions from my Geo with the seat reclined.
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Old 05-02-2006, 08:49 AM   #23
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from what I've read, VW

from what I've read, VW desided not to produce this car because it would have to be sold for around $18,000, and someone thought that was to costly... umm, right.
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Old 05-02-2006, 06:57 PM   #24
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Perhaps too costly to

Perhaps too costly to Volkswagen's profit margins, from decreased maintenance and all of such a low power, simple diesel...
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Old 05-05-2006, 11:45 AM   #25
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Don't be too sure that $18K

Don't be too sure that $18K is too high for a 235 mpg car. The "greens" would LOVE it. I would LOVE it. I'd buy one just for the conversation.

I could thumb my nose at Prius drivers who paid a lot more for a very complicated, and not very efficient vehicle. The formula for great mileage already has existed for about 75 years:

Aerodynamics + light weight + matched engine power = good mileage.

Wouldn't we all love to see an economy race instead of a power and mass race?
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Old 05-05-2006, 12:07 PM   #26
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Re: Don't be too sure that $18K

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Originally Posted by Sludgy
I could thumb my nose at Prius drivers who paid a lot more for a very complicated, and not very efficient vehicle.
I paid less than 24k for my Prius and it comes with 5 seats and enough room for a family of four and a dog and gear for a week's vacation to the beach. I find it to be quite efficient. While the VW is fuel efficient, it is impractical for a family. It only makes sense as a commuter car.
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Old 05-05-2006, 12:59 PM   #27
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Re: Don't be too sure that $18K

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Originally Posted by krousdb
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Originally Posted by Sludgy
I could thumb my nose at Prius drivers who paid a lot more for a very complicated, and not very efficient vehicle.
I paid less than 24k for my Prius and it comes with 5 seats and enough room for a family of four and a dog and gear for a week's vacation to the beach. I find it to be quite efficient. While the VW is fuel efficient, it is impractical for a family. It only makes sense as a commuter car.

heck even i want a first gen prius, small and the quietest car you can buy for not a bad price if you don't mind the mileage.

I'd trade in my civic (clean trade no cash) for one anyday, even if it has more miles, knowing it wasn't beat up. But looking at my car and then the prices posted, it will never become a reality.
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