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Old 06-12-2008, 09:00 PM   #21
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What? What did I miss? Was it some sort of worldwide conspiracy theory involving Amelia Aerhart, JFK and aliens?
No...I just saw no need to escalate these all too common arguments here. There are other forums for that.(cough...bitog...cough)
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Old 06-13-2008, 05:51 AM   #22
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We had no sythetic oil in the military (Coast Guard) in the '70s, but as an Engineman in school we were taught that oil doesn't break down: it becomes contaminated and diluted, hence we used viscosimeters to measure the fuel oil (diesel) dilution of our oil (usually 2000 gallons worth) and ran it through centrifugal purifiers instead of filters. Talk about an oil change.
It would seem to me that despite superior lubricating qualities of syn, it can still be contaminated eventually, and metal dust running through my engine gives me the queasies.
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Old 06-13-2008, 12:06 PM   #23
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It would seem to me that despite superior lubricating qualities of syn, it can still be contaminated eventually, and metal dust running through my engine gives me the queasies.
Which is why FILTRATION is so important (and why I use some of the best filters on the market in my cars). The difference (in both filtering capacity, and size of particles filtered out) between the cheapest and the best oil filters on the market is HUGE (both in total filtering capacity, and in their ability to get much smaller particles removed). Yes, good filters cost more, but IMHO they also pay that back in extra "life" out of your oil.

And for even better filtering than that, you can:

1) Add a few "rare earth" (small, very powerful) magnets to the outside of your oil filters. Small (ferrous) metal shavings in the oil stream will be attracted to the magnets (no matter what size those metals are), instead of trying to push through the filter itself. Granted, non-ferrous metals, and other junk, will still have to be caught by the filter itself, but at least any ferrous metals are taken care of by the magnets (meaning that the filter itself has a little less work to do). This is a cheap "upgrade" for just about any oil filter. And you can even reuse the same magnets filter after filter.

2) Consider getting a "bypass filter" system. A bypass filter is a separately plumbed in oil path, that is DIFFERENT from the normal oil path through the engine (you still need the "full flow" filter for the engine). With a bypass system, the 2nd oil path is very slow, BUT very fine (often 2 micron filtration, or less). This means that while your engine is working, your "bypass filter" is also slowly/constantly micro-filtering a bit of your oil. Over time, this keeps your oil VERY CLEAN (as long as you make sure to change your bypass filters, when they fill up with junk). The main down-side of bypass systems, is that they are a minor PITA to install initially (as they require additional oil plumbing).
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Old 06-13-2008, 12:38 PM   #24
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You can get extremely strong magnets from inside a hard drive, even an ancient one found in a discarded computer from the 1980s. Their field is so strong you have to be careful not to get hurt playing with two of them, but the field drops off sharply at a short distance, so they might not work so well in this application, I'm not sure.

The word, BTW, is ferrous, not ferris.

I think it's a good idea. I've heard of gluing them on the inside of the oil pan too; there they might get some bits that for some reason don't make it to the filter. I've also heard of using them in the transmission pan.
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Old 06-13-2008, 02:36 PM   #25
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but the field drops off sharply at a short distance, so they might not work so well in this application, I'm not sure.
It's just more noticable on stronger magnets, they all have the same inverse square law field strength relationship.

I've got a floppy drive magnet stuck to my differential cover, due to causing carnage in there last fall and wanting to make sure I caught any last stray filings. My tranny pan already has one in, stock.
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Old 06-13-2008, 05:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior View Post
It's just more noticable on stronger magnets, they all have the same inverse square law field strength relationship.
Sounds about right. I was vaguely remembering what I read about it, though I remember that it said the field drop-off had more to do with the type and shape/size of the magnet than its strength; hard drive magnets are neodymium and are flat and very thin...
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:28 PM   #27
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HDD use Neodymium magnets, yes they have a high BT but as RW said its all very short range unless you had a yoke or bar to help focus the magnetic field.

I think the best place for magnetic ring is around the oil filter, its a small space that oil has to pass through, so it should be in the magnetic field plus the filter is steel so it helps grab the metal particals in the oil.
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:53 PM   #28
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Magnets and oil filtration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
You can get extremely strong magnets from inside a hard drive, even an ancient one found in a discarded computer from the 1980s.
Yep, those are the type of magnets I'm talking about. However, tearing a disk drive apart is only one place to get them. They can also be easily mail-ordered (in just about any size/shape you want) from any number of magnet makers, often for very reasonable prices (sometimes for only a few pennies each, if you pick up a small batch of them at the same time). And I've even seen them available directly in retail stores, often sold as part of science type toys (but in a few cases, just packaged by themselves in the store).

The important thing is to make sure that whatever magnets you pick, they are strong enough to actually make a real difference (when put next to the oil, like say on the outside of the oil filter itself). Which is why I consider this "upgrade" pretty worthless UNLESS "Rare Earth"/"Neodymium" Magnets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_magnet , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet ) are used. Simply put, the field strength of even reasonably small rare earth magnets is enough to make a real difference (assuming the magnets are in close proximity to the oil), but the field strength of lessor magnets isn't likely to be enough to bother with (unless you make the lessor magnet much bigger than you likely would want to).

Thankfully, quality rare earth magnets are not that expensive, if you hunt around. And, as you have already pointed out, you can even get such magnets "for free" if you take the trouble to disassemble an old/broken hard disk drive.

And remember, the real nice thing about using rare earth magnets as an oil filtering "upgrade" (of sorts), is that it's a small one time cost (even assuming you don't get the magnets for free from disassembling old/broken hard disks), that should keep providing minor benefits for then entire life of your car. Because when you do change your oil filter, you can easily just move those same magnets onto the next filter (and the one after that, and...).

NOTE: One minor caution with this "upgrade". Be careful to not have the magnets touch bare metal, as that could cause extra corrosion. i.e. if you are going to put the magnets on the outside of your oil filter (an easy/logical place to put them), be sure you put it on a "painted" surface of the filter, and be sure that you don't scratch/remove the paint when adding the magnets. This should be pretty easy to do, but it is something to be at least a little careful about.
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:21 AM   #29
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Aw, crap, I just remembered...my VW doesn't use a normal oil filter, it has a plastic housing with a replacable element. The magnet will not work there!
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:37 AM   #30
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Been using this oil filter magnet for a couple of months:

http://www.filtermag.com/tech.php

Modern oil filters remove particles by forcing the oil through paper-based media with very small ports. The technology behind this filtering media is a compromise that has remained relatively unchanged since the 1930s. While oil is necessary to remove these damaging particles, it is equally important that it flows back into the engine fast enough to lubricate all the moving parts.

A perfect oil filter media would stop all the particles down to 1-micron (about 1/70th the thickness of a human hair). Unfortunately, a filter with ports that small would also restrict the oil from returning to the engine fast enough, resulting in catastrophic equipment failure.

Filter media developments over the years have certainly increased the life cycle for oil filtration cartridges, but fluid dynamics require the ports in the media to remain 25-micron or larger.

An SAE report by David R. Staley, General Motors Corp., states:
"The smallest particles most popular filters captured with high efficiency are sized 25 to 40-micron, depending on the filter brand...[however] controlling the abrasive contaminants in the range of 2 to 22-micron in the lube oil is necessary for controlling engine wear."
These tests also confirmed that removal of particles down to 2-micron in size virtually stops the abrasion wear cycle.

================================================== =

made of neodymium magnets.
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