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Old 06-09-2006, 12:38 PM   #1
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PBS tonight: Who Killed the Electric Car? (Sony pictures)

Who Killed the Electric Car is a movie/documentary presented in the style of a murder mystery.

There's a program about it on PBS tonight (they're not showing the movie itself).

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar

There's a trailer on the Sony site.

They really killed them too - GM, Toyota, Ford, Honda - they all crushed & shredded or shipped their EVs out of the US. (After the crushing started, some of those companies were shamed by public protests into selling some of the cars rather than destroying them.)
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:10 PM   #2
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I think GM was the one that really killed them. The other companies were sandbagging the ZEV mandate, and CARB knew it. GM made the real deal, the EV1, and low sales were enough to convince them to drop the mandate. That might have had more to do with being a $70k Insight with a pitiful range that you couldn't actually buy even if there wasn't a waiting list, but they painted it as a failure of the electric concept.

They seemed to be spiteful about it too. It used very expensive and inefficient chargers for no good reason. They got the state to pay for a bunch, which quickly became worthless eyesores. They also made the 140-mile NiMH version right as the mandate was collapsing. It was what people had thought an electric car could be all along. Then they systematically destroyed every last one.
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Randy
I think GM was the one that really killed them. The other companies were sandbagging the ZEV mandate, and CARB knew it. GM made the real deal, the EV1, and low sales were enough to convince them to drop the mandate. That might have had more to do with being a $70k Insight with a pitiful range that you couldn't actually buy even if there wasn't a waiting list, but they painted it as a failure of the electric concept.

They seemed to be spiteful about it too. It used very expensive and inefficient chargers for no good reason. They got the state to pay for a bunch, which quickly became worthless eyesores. They also made the 140-mile NiMH version right as the mandate was collapsing. It was what people had thought an electric car could be all along. Then they systematically destroyed every last one.
Let's not blame it all on GM. Honda had an EV with a range between 100 and 180 miles.

http://www.hondaev.org/acar.html



http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/268.html

Honda EV+, RIP
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:07 AM   #4
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not so

Hey if you guys were following the goings on over the past year you would know that it was more a legal liability issue as the cars aged and they didn't want to stock parts. People who had leased them didn't want to give them up and offered to buy them at any price and GM refused. Saw one at the Alt Wheels Fest a couple of years ago and the Mayor of Newton drove one - they are supposed to be the best made EV vehicle (EV1) using some top secret stealth technology with proper EMF shielding not found in hybrids today. A lot of people don't need more than 100 -150 mile range.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:15 PM   #5
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psssttt....
can't wait to watch it
http://www.mininova.org/tor/336022
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by philmcneal
psssttt....
can't wait to watch it
http://www.mininova.org/tor/336022
Thanks
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanGeo
Hey if you guys were following the goings on over the past year you would know that it was more a legal liability issue as the cars aged and they didn't want to stock parts. People who had leased them didn't want to give them up and offered to buy them at any price and GM refused. Saw one at the Alt Wheels Fest a couple of years ago and the Mayor of Newton drove one - they are supposed to be the best made EV vehicle (EV1) using some top secret stealth technology with proper EMF shielding not found in hybrids today. A lot of people don't need more than 100 -150 mile range.
Even at the low end of that(100 miles), I could almost go three days to work and back. Probably almost 4 if I didn't have to drive to work in the dark. Actually, I would charge it every night so the batteries would last longer.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philmcneal
psssttt....
can't wait to watch it
http://www.mininova.org/tor/336022
Thank you
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:38 AM   #9
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Even when a legal binding contract to waive GM of all parts liability and safety liability was presented, GM still refused to sell the car.

The only reason the EV1 would have been a "$70k Insight" is production volume. GM intentionally kept that small, then inflated the price.

The first EV1s only went 50 miles per charge, due to a faulty battery. Lessees often replaced them with off the shelf Optimas or Hawkers and got 90-100 miles highway range, on lead acid batteries. Eventually, replacement lead acid batteries were made by Delphi that offered the intended range and reliability.

The NiMH EV1 achieved roughly 140-160 miles range, at least 100 miles if driven as hard as possible, and over 200 miles has been demonstrated in Tour De sol runs with very gentle driving. Basically, for your average person, this translates to 150 miles range.

Who killed the electric car?

The U.S. Federal Government, the oil industry, and the auto industry did.

-The U.S. Department of Justice filed an amicus brief supporting GM, DaimlerChrysler and others in their federal lawsuit against California’s ZEV mandate.

-Former Chief of Staff and former General Motorist Lobbyist Andrew Card acted as plaintiff against the State of California.

-The oil industry made blatantly false advertisements and statements about EVs and their technology.

-The oil industry set up and funded organizations with the declared intent of "stalling or preventing the adoption of battery electric vehicles in California and elsewhere".

-The oil industry conspired to prevent utility companies from setting up EV charging infrastructure.

-Chevron bought out the NiMH battery patent and are setting a restriction on the size of the modules produced and charging well above the battery's retail price by the original developer for use in hybrids.

-The auto industry spread around misleading or even wholly dishonest information on EVs.

-The auto industry attempted to suppress information on battery technology.

-The auto industry made misleading and dishonest statements about the existing and future market for EVs.

-The auto industry outright refused to lease and/or sell the vehicles to willing customers with cash on hand willing to pay the advertised price.

-Auto industry lobbyists spent millions of dollars printing ads in opposition to EVs that their companies developed.

-The auto industry artificially inflated the production costs of their vehicles using wholly unconventional accounting methods.


Today, we have the technology for 200-300 miles range in a 5 passenger midsize car or small SUV, 0-60 mph in 3 seconds and 240 mph top speed for a sports car, and the ability to make an affordable midsize EV with at least 300 miles range and 0-60 mph in < 8 seconds for ~$20,000-25,000.

That NiMH battery patent Chevron Texaco is squatting on? ECD chairman Robert Stemple quoted them at $150/kWh for production volume of 20,000 cars per year. Cycle life is 1,750 to 100% discharge, shelf life not even a factor. Basically, a 50 kWh pack to give an aerodynamic midsize car 250 miles range would have been $7,500 in mass production and lasted well over 300,000 miles.

Had these cars not been suppressed, we'd have roughly 1-5 million of them on the road today in the United States, depending on who you talk to.
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:37 AM   #10
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Thread revival.. I just watched the documentry this past weekend for the first time. Thought provoking, I wonder how many other technologies are available and because of advance technology get in the way of large coperations making a profit, technologies get burried and becomes unaware to the public?
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