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Old 03-18-2007, 08:26 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by repete86 View Post
I do critical mass. In my opinion, it raises awareness. We don't block entire roads, just one lane. It's only once per week anyway.
My apologies for being insulting. But if somebody who has commuted on his bicycle on a regular basis like myself still can't see the wisdom of critical mass rides, is this really the kind of 'awareness' bicyclists should be after?

Like I've stated, I don't care if drivers get pissed at me when I'm following the rules, but when you start pissing drivers off by not following the rules, that's when enforcement becomes a real issue. Even commuting bicyclists spotted in the vicinity of critical mass rides have been harrassed and cited for minor infractions by the police for this reason - and that is something I would truly like to avoid, because I don't follow the rules ALL of the time, and I'd like to not get a mark on my driving record for it.

Further, when drivers start assuming that riders are critical mass participants, their lack of respect makes it more dangerous for bicyclists in general. It becomes as sinister as racial prejudices where the actions of a few become the representative trait for the many.
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:11 PM   #22
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But if somebody who has commuted on his bicycle on a regular basis like myself still can't see the wisdom of critical mass rides, is this really the kind of 'awareness' bicyclists should be after?

Like I've stated, I don't care if drivers get pissed at me when I'm following the rules, but when you start pissing drivers off by not following the rules, that's when enforcement becomes a real issue. Even commuting bicyclists spotted in the vicinity of critical mass rides have been harrassed and cited for minor infractions by the police for this reason - and that is something I would truly like to avoid, because I don't follow the rules ALL of the time, and I'd like to not get a mark on my driving record for it.

Further, when drivers start assuming that riders are critical mass participants, their lack of respect makes it more dangerous for bicyclists in general. It becomes as sinister as racial prejudices where the actions of a few become the representative trait for the many.

I think you're right on the money here. The effects of a critical mass ride linger for days afterward. Driver don't need any more reason to disrespect riders.

Need to put the Trek in the garage. Nice ride.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:54 PM   #23
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I know in CA you can. I've run reds right in front of cops and seen others do it. As long as you're not a complete moron and cautiously check to make sure there's no traffic, I don't think they bug you.
Nope, In California, you cannot....sure, 9 times out of 10 you'll not get stopped by an observant cop, but that just means the laws are not enforced.

In California, a bicyclist has no more or less right to cars...only pedestrians have more rights....
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:57 PM   #24
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Whether you're on a bike or driving a car too slowly, as to impede normal traffic flow, it is wrong, and immoral. Just because one is following the rules does not mean one should do so in such a way as to impede traffic...doing so is rude, and inconsiderate. And this "critical mass" or "en-mass" riding we see sometimes, dozens or more bikers blocking a lane or more, is plain immoral, wrong and disrespectful to car drivers...

I ride a bike to work 3-5 days a week, by the way.
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:29 PM   #25
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Nope, In California, you cannot....sure, 9 times out of 10 you'll not get stopped by an observant cop, but that just means the laws are not enforced.

In California, a bicyclist has no more or less right to cars...only pedestrians have more rights....
Even peds don't have anything more legally compared to motorists. The whole "right of way" number is BS, it's just so that motorists are very cautious when around peds, iirc CA and NV basically have the same ped laws. By stating cyclists can run reds/stops, I didn't mean that it's not illegal, I meant that it's not enforced. And it's not enforced on a much larger scale than 9 out of 10. More like 99 out of 100 for reds/stops, and 999 out of 1000 for riding on the sidewalk. I think cops also target recreational cyclists more, so if you dress a little on the ratty side, they'll assume you're poor/homeless and not even think twice about it imle.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:05 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by MorningGaser View Post
Whether you're on a bike or driving a car too slowly, as to impede normal traffic flow, it is wrong, and immoral. Just because one is following the rules does not mean one should do so in such a way as to impede traffic...doing so is rude, and inconsiderate. And this "critical mass" or "en-mass" riding we see sometimes, dozens or more bikers blocking a lane or more, is plain immoral, wrong and disrespectful to car drivers...
While I agree about the CM stuff (really, it's proven other ways work better) -- I will not only ride on the road, but I take my lane. So one bike, or 20 - it's still one section of that one lane a car will not be able occupy. And this year, Florida passed extra laws in favor of cyclists. I can now report someone that tries to pass in my lane and altercations (2 for me thus far - neither reported) have a greater severity for drivers that think they have a sole right to the road. And believe me, I've made a few reports - especially for the guys that I catch up to at a red light after zipping around me

It's illegal for me to ride on the sidewalk (should one be around) and it's very dangerous to ride on the MUP because it's rarely cleaned (despite my letters). I stopped riding on the MUP after I had a blowout and wiped out :/ I did some phone calls - and legally, I'm allowed to ride on the road even if the MUP is available.

I don't find it immoral one bit. I pay my taxes, I share the road - I use proper signaling and will even talk with people (99% friendly and wishing they were commuting as I was) at the red lights I stop at. If I didn't get pulled over for drafting a truck, I'd continue to do so (and thus be able to go a lot faster). So, instead - I ride at a comfortable cruising speed (somewhere around 20-25).

Not sharing the road is disrespectful to everyone and against the law And on the subject of disrespect... I had to leave the country (joining the 18% of Americans that do) to discover just how disrespectful we (in the US) have become. Cyclists are the least of our respect problems.

PS I ride just about every weekday - but that really doesn't matter
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:47 PM   #27
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Frankly, I'd rather avoid sharing the road with cagers at all. It's not so bad at 7:15 in the morning, but by quitting time at 4:00 PM, the fumes from the cars and diesel trucks is overwhelming at the roadside. So whenever possible, I will ride a mile or more out of my way for the less travelled route or dedicated path.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:51 PM   #28
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... the fumes from the cars and diesel trucks is overwhelming at the roadside.
I agree Unfortunately for me... there isn't an alternate route with better air


One thing I did forget to mention.... If you're on the road... Taking your lane is MUCH safer for everyone. I'll look for the stat. but more people (% wise) get hit where sidewalk/path intersect road compared to riders on the road.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:20 PM   #29
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I have the same problems with exhaust. I was riding the other day when a line of SUV's drove by me. I felt like throwing up afterwards. It's so sickening, especially when it's windy and you don't see it coming until you're in a patch of exhaust. Of course, none of them had more than one person riding in the car.
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