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Old 03-13-2007, 01:03 PM   #1
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Cost per mile?

Wouldn't this category make a level playing field for all to compete on?
I will be tuning for E85 soon and it is $.40 cheaper than regular gas and ~$.60 cheaper than 92 octane. I won't get the same raw mileage but my cost per mile will be lower.

Just a thought.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:42 PM   #2
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However, it also means the cost per mile will increase in countries / states where gas costs more. In the UK I would need 4-6 times better MPG to break even in that case

Maybe some way of having a multiplier, based on the local price of standard gas?. But it would have to take into account the carbon emissions too (hopefully E-85 is helpful for the environment). I know that with full 'mineral' gas, my car gets a minimum of 350 miles to a tank, and still has 10-20 miles more, whereas on cheap Tesco (supermarket) 5% ethanol petrol, I got 240 miles then ran broken down due to the petrol actually running out (was very unexpected). So, my car does more environmental damage on the 'bio' petrol!
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:47 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
However, it also means the cost per mile will increase in countries / states where gas costs more. In the UK I would need 4-6 times better MPG to break even in that case

Maybe some way of having a multiplier, based on the local price of standard gas?. But it would have to take into account the carbon emissions too (hopefully E-85 is helpful for the environment). I know that with full 'mineral' gas, my car gets a minimum of 350 miles to a tank, and still has 10-20 miles more, whereas on cheap Tesco (supermarket) 5% ethanol petrol, I got 240 miles then ran broken down due to the petrol actually running out (was very unexpected). So, my car does more environmental damage on the 'bio' petrol!
This could work no mater what fuel you use.
Motivation is all the same, best FE. This lowers your cost per mile.
I can tune my engine to accommodate for the change in stoichiometry to help
with the "power" loss.

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Old 03-13-2007, 02:53 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
However, it also means the cost per mile will increase in countries / states where gas costs more. In the UK I would need 4-6 times better MPG to break even in that case

Maybe some way of having a multiplier, based on the local price of standard gas?. But it would have to take into account the carbon emissions too (hopefully E-85 is helpful for the environment). I know that with full 'mineral' gas, my car gets a minimum of 350 miles to a tank, and still has 10-20 miles more, whereas on cheap Tesco (supermarket) 5% ethanol petrol, I got 240 miles then ran broken down due to the petrol actually running out (was very unexpected). So, my car does more environmental damage on the 'bio' petrol!
Different states have slightly different gas prices as well. So this would be a good idea to see personal improvements, but other than that, not very good at showing much. The other problem i could see is the constantly fluctuating gas prices. It is however, a great way to compare say, a plug in hybrid to a diesel, to an ethanol powered vehicle.
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:52 PM   #5
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koffin -

Quote:
Originally Posted by koffin View Post
Wouldn't this category make a level playing field for all to compete on?
I will be tuning for E85 soon and it is $.40 cheaper than regular gas and ~$.60 cheaper than 92 octane. I won't get the same raw mileage but my cost per mile will be lower.

Just a thought.
There's alot of data lying around in GasSavers that could be processed. Assuming for the moment that all the entries are accurate, you could have a "pseudo-buck" that is based on all the entries of a price of gas on a given date of user input (that date being when they did a fill-up in the gaslog). Here's an example for a given day, where everyone is getting the same MPG :

For the sake of fun I will call a pseudo-buck a "Quatloo" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatloos.com).

Joe Gas Saver : 100 miles 2 gallons @ $3.00 / Gallon => 6 gallons / 100 Miles = $.06 / Mile
Jane Gas Saver : 200 miles 4 gallons @ $3.50 / Gallon => 14 gallons / 200 Miles = $.07 / Mile
Spot Gas Saver : 300 miles 6 gallons @ $4.00 / Gallon => 24 gallons / 300 Miles = $.08 / Mile

Now, focusing on the price per gallon, you will see that the average price of gas for this day is 3.50 Quatloos, i.e. 3.5 = ($4.00+$3.50+$3.00) / 3. This generates the same cost per mile in Quatloos :

Joe : (2*3.5) / 100 = 7 / 100 = .07 Quatloos / Mile
Jane : (4*3.5) / 200 = 14 / 200 = .07 Quatloos / Mile
Spot : (6*3.5) / 300 = 21 / 300 = .07 Quatloos / Mile

But, what if Joe was getting only half the MPG as the other two GasSavers? In this case Joe had to put in 4 gallons of gas instead of the original 2 :

Joe Gas Saver : 100 miles 4 gallons @ $3.00 / Gallon => 12 gallons / 100 Miles = $.12 / Mile

In the above, Joe's absolute cost per mile is greater than Jane's and Spot's. In Quatloos it will make sense because the Quatloos per mile doubles :

=> Joe : (4*3.5) / 100 = 14 / 100 = .14 Quatloos / Mile

Unfairness Factor : Depending on which day you fill up, this could effect your Quatloo cost per mile. However, we all suffer from that dingy reality every day of the year.

This does not address different octanes and fuels.

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Old 03-13-2007, 10:08 PM   #6
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why should your cost per mile just count fuel? with my simple vehicle log book I can tell you how much I spent per mile things like insurance, tires, the overall cost of the car, oil changes, suspention, it takes a few minutes to figure out the current number, but it's all in there, and at the end of the life of a vehicle it's fasinating to look back on what was spent.
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Old 03-14-2007, 08:15 PM   #7
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why should your cost per mile just count fuel? with my simple vehicle log book I can tell you how much I spent per mile things like insurance, tires, the overall cost of the car, oil changes, suspention, it takes a few minutes to figure out the current number, but it's all in there, and at the end of the life of a vehicle it's fasinating to look back on what was spent.
Oh dear, I'd probobly get a pet siberian tiger to ride to school and work if I actually figured out how much I spend on my vehicles
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:59 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
koffin -



There's alot of data lying around in GasSavers that could be processed. Assuming for the moment that all the entries are accurate, you could have a "pseudo-buck" that is based on all the entries of a price of gas on a given date of user input (that date being when they did a fill-up in the gaslog). Here's an example for a given day, where everyone is getting the same MPG :

For the sake of fun I will call a pseudo-buck a "Quatloo" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatloos.com).

Joe Gas Saver : 100 miles 2 gallons @ $3.00 / Gallon => 6 gallons / 100 Miles = $.06 / Mile
Jane Gas Saver : 200 miles 4 gallons @ $3.50 / Gallon => 14 gallons / 200 Miles = $.07 / Mile
Spot Gas Saver : 300 miles 6 gallons @ $4.00 / Gallon => 24 gallons / 300 Miles = $.08 / Mile

Now, focusing on the price per gallon, you will see that the average price of gas for this day is 3.50 Quatloos, i.e. 3.5 = ($4.00+$3.50+$3.00) / 3. This generates the same cost per mile in Quatloos :

Joe : (2*3.5) / 100 = 7 / 100 = .07 Quatloos / Mile
Jane : (4*3.5) / 200 = 14 / 200 = .07 Quatloos / Mile
Spot : (6*3.5) / 300 = 21 / 300 = .07 Quatloos / Mile

But, what if Joe was getting only half the MPG as the other two GasSavers? In this case Joe had to put in 4 gallons of gas instead of the original 2 :

Joe Gas Saver : 100 miles 4 gallons @ $3.00 / Gallon => 12 gallons / 100 Miles = $.12 / Mile

In the above, Joe's absolute cost per mile is greater than Jane's and Spot's. In Quatloos it will make sense because the Quatloos per mile doubles :

=> Joe : (4*3.5) / 100 = 14 / 100 = .14 Quatloos / Mile

Unfairness Factor : Depending on which day you fill up, this could effect your Quatloo cost per mile. However, we all suffer from that dingy reality every day of the year.

This does not address different octanes and fuels.

CarloSW2
Good stuff!

Using this logic though, all the measuring sticks we have in place are skewed.
As we know, our test control can't be perfect based upon geographical location, fuel prices, and other variables.

I am still curious as to how I stack up to those with diesels, hybrids, and misc on the cost per mile basis.

My personal challenge is to have my cake and eat it too. I want a car that can be track competitive but can achieve ~40mpg and carry my family and lots of groceries. I know what my avg cost per mile(just accounting for fuel, not upgrades and mods, for now). My goal is to lower that each time I fill. Its just another measuring stick.

Perhaps we can formulate an equation that takes in account raw MPG and cost per mile.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #9
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koffin -

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Originally Posted by koffin View Post
Good stuff!

Using this logic though, all the measuring sticks we have in place are skewed.
Egg-zactly. We are talking about a very complicated problem, much like the EPA mileage standards problem.

Quote:
As we know, our test control can't be perfect based upon geographical location, fuel prices, and other variables.
Yes, and our statistical sample is biased because we are not pulling data from all over the place.

Ding!!!! Here's an idea. Extract data from the "gasbuddy" website or some other governmental equivalent. The idea being, there should be some "average global" or "average national" price for gas out somewhere on the web. Maybe something based on the daily price of a barrel of crude oil?

Quote:
I am still curious as to how I stack up to those with diesels, hybrids, and misc on the cost per mile basis.

My personal challenge is to have my cake and eat it too. I want a car that can be track competitive but can achieve ~40mpg and carry my family and lots of groceries. I know what my avg cost per mile(just accounting for fuel, not upgrades and mods, for now). My goal is to lower that each time I fill. Its just another measuring stick.

Perhaps we can formulate an equation that takes in account raw MPG and cost per mile.
Hrmmmmm. Methinks I must think on this.

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Old 03-15-2007, 04:07 PM   #10
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Hrmmmmm. Methinks I must think on this.

CarloSW2
Perhaps if weighted certain aspects that held more importance.
I too will think on this.
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