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Old 08-24-2009, 09:19 AM   #1
BDC
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Location filter?

Can we get a filter for currency, location, etc... something to distinguish the Euro cars from the Americans and vice versa?

I am in America, and when I want to browse vehicles, I don't even care to see the Euro ones -- they use different currency, their gas costs more, their gallons are a different size -- all of these things mean none of their data is useful to me without doing math in my head. On top of that, often a certain year, make and model in America will be a significantly different car than the exact same year, make, and model in Europe.

For example, about half of the MR2 Spyder listings on Fuelly are British cars. The motor is similar, but they got a six-speed transmission instead of the five-speed and different options. Most cars have similar significant differences between their American and European versions.

So can we just get a way to filter by the units people are using to input data, such as currency, fuel volume units, or distance units?
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:51 AM   #2
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Everything in Fuelly is stored in US units no matter how they're put into the system. Even if you're filling up with liters, everything is stored as gallons. That means everything is being compared with similar units, and only the display changes based on your preferences.

If you want to see MPG, you pick "US" units, and if you want to see UK MPG you pick "UK" units and all cars will show those units--it doesn't matter what units the owner is using when they report their fuel-ups.

If the British MR2 really is a different model, we should think about splitting that off into its own branch. But I don't think we need to add filter controls by location for most vehicles. The vast majority of Fuelly members are in the US but there probably are some specific vehicles where there's a larger portion of members from other countries.

To get a sense of how diverse things are, here are the top 10 countries among people who have set a home country at the time I'm posting this:

United States - 3402

Canada - 546

United Kingdom - 312

Australia - 53

India - 25

Malaysia - 22

South Africa - 21

Portugal - 18

Mexico - 17

Brazil - 15
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:33 AM   #3
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There is a certain amount of target geographical market tailoring for a model of car & what messes things up even more is importing. Afaik there's a fair number of Jap market cars in the UK which are made to different specs than their equivalent officially imported UK counterpart, these cars can't be compared to US or European models directly. So maybe a country of origin field would be good idea for now?
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:15 AM   #4
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Right now we only have 4 users who identify themselves as from Japan, so I don't think it's something we need to restructure for at this time.
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:19 PM   #5
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It's your call but I wasn't talking about people from a Japan on the site I'm talking about personal imports 2nd hand from Japan, 5 out of 7 cars I've owned were built for the Japanese market. Due to the Japanese vehicle testing system a large number of common Jap spec cars make their way into the UK because it's simply better to sell & export a perfectly road worthy than do the required maintenance work (things like replacing the entire brake system from the ground up with new parts). The Jap' spec machinery can be radically different for the same model compared to the European version.
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Old 08-26-2009, 12:55 AM   #6
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ahh, thanks for the clarification. That makes sense, but I still think we're fine with the current system. We're not trying to find the exact fuel economy of specific models of cars. The goal of the site is to help individuals track their fuel economy and share it with others. Along the way we get some aggregate data to play with. That might be a subtle distinction, but it informs all of our design decisions.

If our primary goal with Fuelly was finding the fuel economy of specific vehicles down to differences across countries, we would have to ask for much more detail when creating a vehicle in the system. But we have something like the difference between a realist painting and an impressionist painting. We're not striving for exact detail, we're getting impressions of how models perform based on an inexact method of measuring.
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Old 08-26-2009, 05:13 AM   #7
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I will back up Techathy's comments, my vehicle Hippo is registered as a Toyota 4runner (it was actually called a Hilux Surf), but the 4runner in the US never had the engine /chassis combo that was released in Japan and the UK, and even then the UK version didn't get the toys the Japs did.

The Honda Prelude for Japan had a more powerful engine than released for other markets.

In the UK, Australia and New Zealand there is a big market for 10 year old Japanese market vehicles which would fail the 'Shaken' (this is the Japanese vehicle check that get's stricter as the years go on) so get exported.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:40 AM   #8
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I didn't realize that Fuelly was smart enough to convert everything into my units. That is very helpful.

However the more I use this site, the more it's clear that there needs to be more than just a "L4" or "V6" engine option. If nothing else, cars between continents almost always have a different engine. The Toyota Yaris is another great example because it is offered with several motors of different displacement (1.0l, 1.3l, 1.5l, 1.6l, 1.8l, and a 1.4l diesel) overseas, but only one (1.5l) here in the US. There's no way to tell that it is a 1.0l Euro car (which will get much different gas mileage), unless the owner clearly says so in the description. Since the gas mileage plain doesn't matter to a US Yaris owner, and since it's pointless to compare it to a US Yaris, we need to have some distinction between the two. And already people don't know the difference between "H4" and "L4" so we can't even use this category to filter reliably.

I would certainly be happy to help with cataloging cars by motor type, honestly Fuelly is a fun tool but it doesn't have much analysis or comparison capacity and it is hampered by problems such as this. I logged gas mileage with my own tools before I found fuelly, but I have been considering going back to them as I find more little bugs. I would be happy to contribute to making the site work better and that is the same kind of thing I do professionally anyways.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:35 PM   #9
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And already people don't know the difference between "H4" and "L4" so we can't even use this category to filter reliably.

I think you hit on the heart of the matter with this line. Fuelly relies completely on user input for everything. And we have a choice: make the system usable for a wide audience or make the system extremely precise. I think there's room on the web for an application similar to this one where the goal is to gather absolutely precise data for car enthusiasts. That is not our goal, though. We want to help people track their own mileage using an admittedly imprecise method, and compare notes along the way. We're not going to achieve scientific accuracy. And adding more and more details about vehicles will alienate people who don't know the difference between their model and trim levels.

It could be that Fuelly isn't precise enough for you and I think that's ok. We have to find a balance, and what we come up with won't be for everyone.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:07 PM   #10
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PB good job on this site. I see where everyone is coming from. I am a VW nut and it would be nice to log every little data that I have about my cars BuT, I think that should be a personal or maybe find a forum for specific car hobbiest. I surf TDI site and Samba site. Others can go to there specific sites and see if they can come up with there own data collector for there cars. There are just too many car combos out there. Motor swaps to put on one list without full dedication which would alienate the average user. My sister is on here and just tracks her milage. I put in when I change the oil and which gas station I use and what not. She would be overwhelmed with a more detailed site as I am sure other people that are not nuts about there car or just use the car to go from point A to B.

Try this one, I have a 1963 vw bus crew cab converted to a TowTruck with twin stacked motor with the top motor upside down! Where would this fit? Get the point. No place for a I8 motor? One offs or rare cars just need to be delt with on there own or find a equivilent you could compair it with or none at all. Love cars. Love the site. Keep it up!
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