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Old 12-07-2008, 04:48 AM   #11
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...propaganda that perpetuates a false reason for being in Iraq or Afghanistan. I won't be part of the blind American minions that follow the herd.

That's exactly why the US Empire invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and why we're stil illegally occupying both countries: because no one questioned Bushevik and his cronies motives.

I disagree with your premise that ANYONE fighting in and occupying Iraq and Afghanistan is sacrificing their lives or lifestyles for the freedoms of anyone...
we really ought not try to sight the motives of others, often(most?) times we are WAY off.

i could pick apart your last post, but it will end with this(for the sake of our troops and to satisfy the moderators here)...

the war in Afghanistan(and Iraq for that matter) is supported by MANY including our prez elect. i sight this because certainly most or all anti-war zombies voted for him.

may i ask if it is believed that NO war is ever just in the view of that crowd?
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:24 AM   #12
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Maybe we don't support why they're there, but how can we not support the troops themselves?
Jay, define "supporting the troops." I cannot personally reconcile an illegal, immoral invasion and occupation - that has killed 2 million innocent people in two countires, devastated basic infrustructure including electricity, water and wastewater treatment, and healthcare, and has put my country further in debt among many other things - with supporting, in any way, those who are participating in these terrible actions.

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we really ought not try to sight the motives of others, often(most?) times we are WAY off.
I disagree. We really should address the motives for these illegal and immoral invasions and occupations. It is our right and our duty to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. Otherwise we all just become a bunch of good Germans.

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the war in Afghanistan(and Iraq for that matter) is supported by MANY including our prez elect. i sight this because certainly most or all anti-war zombies voted for him.
This "anti-war zombie" did not vote for Obama. Just for the record, he was opposed to the Iraq invasion but has voted for every supplemental funding bill since then...which in my book equals support. I didn't vote for him because, among other things, 1) he was like most other candidates who demonized Iran and repeated the false assertions that they are developing nuclear weapons, 2) he pandered to the AIPAC and to the Israeli government itself, 3) he was/is in favor of sending more troops to Afghanistan, and 4) he backed off his pledge to immediately and completely withdraw from Iraq.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:06 AM   #13
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Jay, define "supporting the troops."
What I'm saying is support the soldiers. Maybe you don't agree with the people in Washington that sent them there, but don't take it out on the soldiers. They're mostly young kids that joined to pay for college.

-Jay
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:20 AM   #14
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What I'm saying is support the soldiers. Maybe you don't agree with the people in Washington that sent them there, but don't take it out on the soldiers. They're mostly young kids that joined to pay for college.

-Jay
So you're suggesting that I should support the participation of these young adults in an illegal and immoral act (by international and our own US constitutional standards) because they needed the money to pay for college? That's a specious argument and not a valid reason for participating in the heinous invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Blindly "supporting the troops" is precisely why the US is still there.
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:20 AM   #15
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I'm just saying that for many young adults, the military is their best option for funding college. For children of lower - middle class & middle - middle class families their families have too much money to get a scholarship, but the family doesn't have the funds to send the kid to college either. Many young men & women are left with the decision to either join the military and go to college, or not go to college.

I was going to give this long drawn out speech as to how this has effected me personally, but I just erased all of that. As a moderator I feel I have probably already entrenched myself into this discussion too far. At this point I feel that its best that we just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

-Jay
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