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Old 02-28-2007, 05:44 PM   #41
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Where would an individual go to, to purchase carbon foot print credits?
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Silveredwings View Post
"Just a trim-tab" - Buckminster Fuller
Had to look it up. Good metaphor.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:48 PM   #43
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In Ontario, there's a company that sells "Green Tags" which essentially support the development of renewable energy projects.

Hmm. Maybe I should sell ForkenSwift carbon credits. Your money will go towards a project which offsets fossil fuel use with 100% renewable energy
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:52 PM   #44
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SVOboy -

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Regardless of whether he practices what he preaches or not, it says little about his message...
My take on this is what is the NET result of Gore's actions? If Gore "changes the world" and we stop Global Warming in it's tracks within the next 20 years, aka the Ozone Layer, then the "local costs" that Gore incurs on the environment is excusable, IMO. What I am saying is, Gore is able to justify his energy waste if his actions make the world a better place for all of us. Not everyone can be Ed Begley Jr.

If a trucker drives a Semi to deliver an EV car, I have no problem with that.

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Old 02-28-2007, 06:16 PM   #45
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MetroMPG-

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I think that scrutiny of energy use of public figures is going to increase dramatically in the future, and this will cause them to think more carefully about what they do.

Regardless of whether they change consumption habits out of genuine concern for the issues, or simply to avoid the bad "optics" of not changing, it doesn't really matter because the end result is the same.
You're right about scrutiny in the following case. Soooo, now that I have defended Gore for going after the "big enchilada", I would like to lampoon this guy :

Transit boss' SUV is too big to ignore
January 21, 2007
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...home-headlines
Quote:
Questions about the Hummer would be off-limits. That's what the mayor's press secretary told me as we headed to a City Hall meeting with transportation chief Jaime de la Vega, whose vehicle of choice seems odd for a man in his position.
Gore is not the United States Secretary of Transportation. This Jaime de la Vega fellow is a transportation chief in LA. I think he of all people should realize the implication of driving his hummer.

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Old 02-28-2007, 06:29 PM   #46
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SVOboy -



My take on this is what is the NET result of Gore's actions? If Gore "changes the world" and we stop Global Warming in it's tracks within the next 20 years, aka the Ozone Layer, then the "local costs" that Gore incurs on the environment is excusable, IMO. What I am saying is, Gore is able to justify his energy waste if his actions make the world a better place for all of us. Not everyone can be Ed Begley Jr.

If a trucker drives a Semi to deliver an EV car, I have no problem with that.

CarloSW2
But do rights trump utility in this case? I would argue that they do, and that his waste of energy is inexcusable regardless of how much his speaking saves...

Nevertheless, his own habits say nothing about the need to reduce energy usage, as I think most will agree.
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Old 02-28-2007, 07:39 PM   #47
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SVOboy -

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But do rights trump utility in this case? I would argue that they do, and that his waste of energy is inexcusable regardless of how much his speaking saves...

Nevertheless, his own habits say nothing about the need to reduce energy usage, as I think most will agree.
In this case I say yes because I see Gore as the only notable figure in the United States fighting for this issue. There are of course better (aka more ethical) representatives on this issue, but I don't see them as having the ability to make a difference. People like Amory Lovins or William McDonough are great, but they don't have the bully puplit to speak from. Gore's a bigger "trim-tab", so to speak. Orrrrr, maybe he has been influenced by us smaller "trim-tabs" to adopt this issue.

Now, if there were "5 Al Gore" equivalents in the Senate right now that were putting Global Warming front and center, I would take a closer look at who they were as people and I would feel as if I have a choice.

Question : If Paul Wellstone were alive today, do you think he would be working with Gore right now to draft Global Warming legislation? Hmmm, maybe Barbara Boxer and Gore can have a chat ...

I always look at the world through two sets of eyes, the ideal and the pragmatic. Pragmatically speaking, I don't care if Gore wastes energy. From a strategic POV, it would be better if Gore were squeeky clean, but right now he's the best we have to work with.

Here's the organization that did the initial report that the Drudge Report used :

Tennessee Center for Policy Research
http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/page.php?page_id=1

Here is what their links page points to :

http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/page.php?page_id=5
Cato Institute Washington, DC
Competitive Enterprise Institute Washington, DC
Heartland Institute Chicago, IL
Heritage Foundation Washington, DC
Independent Institute Oakland. CA
Manhattan Institute New York, NY
National Center for Policy Analysis Dallas, TX and Washington, DC
Reason Foundation Los Angeles, CA


I got this info by looking at this blog article :

Al Gore's electricity bill heats up blogosphere
http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-616...ml?tag=newsmap


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Old 03-01-2007, 04:52 AM   #48
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Maybe his neighbors all have their houses connected to his power line.
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:44 AM   #49
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The Point

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Certainly a quality truthful message should stand on it's own merit, regardless of the messenger.
I think this is where we should focus -- it's too easy to dig up crap on Politicians -- let the data tell the story.

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Old 03-01-2007, 02:08 PM   #50
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I just can't get all that excited about global warming. If you look at the paleoclimate record, the earth was warmer than it currently is for most of the earth's history. By comparison, our current global temperature (even though we are in an interglacial) is abnormally low. The Arctic ice cap only appeared about 3 million years ago (before that you had to go back to the Permian (260 million years ago) to find another Ice Age). Before the ice caps formed, the sea level was about 300 feet higher than the current sea level (coastlines in the Southeast US ran along the Fall Line). There were polar deciduous forests in northern Canada, Greenland, and Antarctica. This is a forest ecotype that no longer exists today, which consisted of deciduous trees that dropped their leaves during the long polar winter because of lack of daylight rather than because of extreme cold. At that time there were cold hardy palm trees (Sabal species) living in Wyoming, and the Southeast US and England had tropical climates. As the earth warms back up to its previous temperatures, we will lose some land area to the rising sea level (most of Florida and the coastal plains in the Southeast). But the Arctic and Antarctic regions will become more vegetatively productive and usable than they are currently in their mostly frozen state (we have an entire continent that is currently locked up in the deep freeze and buried under up to 12,000 feet of ice, that could once again support forests and a thriving ecosystem).

Also some of the data that I have seen appears to be skewed towards promoting the conclusion of global warming. Pie charts in a recent Scientific American article showing current and prehistoric methane sources show domestic animals (cows, goats, sheep, etc) as a major source of current methane production, but the prehistoric chart doesn't show the corresponding estimated methane production of the vast herds of bison, aurochs, camels, mammoths, mastodons, etc. that used to roam the globe and were producing methane at that time (and how about the methane production from the vast pods of whales that used to roam the oceans).

The climate may be getting warmer, but it has a ways to go before it reaches the temperatures that were normal for most of the past 500 million years.
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