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Old 09-04-2011, 09:04 PM   #11
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

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CARB or CAFE?
No wonder everyone is yelling at me. CAFE.
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Old 09-04-2011, 10:29 PM   #12
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

Your title "CARB rules cause more traffic deaths" is stated like a fact. So where is the supporting data?
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Old 09-05-2011, 04:03 AM   #13
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

It may not be a stretch to say that CARB rules produce similar pressures as CAFE. Does CARB consider total pollution output, or does it only consider equipment installed? My only knowledge of it is the equipment end of things.
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #14
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

Lightening vehicles doesn't automatically equate to more deaths.

Half of crashes involve just one vehicle. Depending on the specifics of the crash, the weight of the vehicle will be used against it. So a heavier one can be riskier to be in.

Here's a thought experiment. In an accident, would you rather be in a new compact car, or an 1980 full size pick up?
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:36 AM   #15
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow9jYB1i-S4
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Old 09-05-2011, 05:54 PM   #16
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

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Lightening vehicles doesn't automatically equate to more deaths.

Half of crashes involve just one vehicle. Depending on the specifics of the crash, the weight of the vehicle will be used against it. So a heavier one can be riskier to be in.

Here's a thought experiment. In an accident, would you rather be in a new compact car, or an 1980 full size pick up?
80's fullsize hands down, those things were tanks. Plus id love to see a compacts roof/windows support 6000# of steel when its on top of it ...
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:37 PM   #17
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

The 80s, when vehicles were at their lightest and full size pickups weren't even crash-rated? When thin sheet metal was atop an unyielding chassis with no crumple zones or air bags? Hollow doors without side-impact beams, roof barely supported by formed sheet metal with no rollover protection? I bet the new compact car can support the truck on its roof better than the truck can support the car.

No thanks, I'll take the 3300 pound 2011 compact car instead of the 3700 pound 1983 full size half ton pickup. Even in a one-ton we're looking at 4900 pounds (see PDF page 10/labeled page 7), not 6000.

...but I take my chances in my 1980 Buick every day anyway.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:59 PM   #18
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

I'm sure a lot of you have seen this but for the ones that have not enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:40 PM   #19
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

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The 80s, when vehicles were at their lightest and full size pickups weren't even crash-rated? When thin sheet metal was atop an unyielding chassis with no crumple zones or air bags? Hollow doors without side-impact beams, roof barely supported by formed sheet metal with no rollover protection? I bet the new compact car can support the truck on its roof better than the truck can support the car.

No thanks, I'll take the 3300 pound 2011 compact car instead of the 3700 pound 1983 full size half ton pickup. Even in a one-ton we're looking at 4900 pounds (see PDF page 10/labeled page 7), not 6000.

...but I take my chances in my 1980 Buick every day anyway.
i searched for a bit and could not find the freakin weight of a 80' ck chevy...

what kind of accident are we talking here? t bone? head on? rearend?
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:30 AM   #20
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Re: CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

The question of what kind of accident would certainly come into play in a crash between more equivalent vehicles, but I'd say a new economy car would beat that old ck in every kind of crash.

Here's 1980 ck specs:
http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-h...olet-Truck.pdf
PDF page 10, document page 7.
Curb weight 3600 (half ton single cab) to 5400 (one ton crew cab)
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