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Old 07-04-2010, 08:15 AM   #71
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Because I know you're not going to be riding the bike the majority of the time and then there is also the possibility that on the whole, you'll be using more fuel by riding your bike more often (ride cause it's "fun") than if you simply had a wagon that you use for work..

You obviously don't know me well... I'd ride the hell out of a wagon because its fun too. Every vehicle I have gives me some type of pleasure when I drive it. If I get absolutely no pleasure out of it, I won't buy it. Plain & simple.

I loved driving the ambulances, my Gov't issue Step van, My 1 ton van, my old Pontiac wagon, my Buick, my trucks, and my Harley.

Riding the Harley "because its fun" works both ways you know... Because its fun could be the deciding factor between taking the Harley over another vehicle for the same trip. I could have very easily taken the truck for yesterday's shopping trip, but I put over 120 miles on the bike, had fun on some nice twisty roads in the mountains, and took in some incredible scenery. I managed to get all of my purchases in the saddle bags. I spent $8.36 on fuel for the trip. I probably would have spent over $50 in fuel for the truck.

Because I don't enjoy driving the 1st gen Focus, that vehicle will sit a lot. If I were to purchase a FE wagon I would either go for the 240 diesel, or I might be able to force myself to buy a Taurus wagon, but my family has had less than stellar experiences with the Taurus line. When they run, they run great, but every problem that seemed to come up was major. I could get a lot of enjoyment out of an old Buick Roadmaster wagon from the 90's, and with a new highway rating of 24 MPG (Edit: Old rating was 26 highway), that's 33% more than my truck's highway rating of 16. None of this changes the fact that the truck is paid for, runs flawlessly, and because of its age and mileage I won't get much for selling it, so I might as well just keep it till the doors fall off. It serves my purposes, and because maintenance, taxes, and insurance are cheap on it, I can afford to keep it, even though it doesn't get as good of mileage as I'd like.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:04 AM   #72
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Good point, however the hate still feels unfounded.. Why hate a vehicle you barely know? Something has polarized you to be full of hate and while I can't pinpoint why, it doesn't make it any less rational..
Because I HAVE driven one. When I bought my Contour in 2000 I took three different cars out for two days each, a Contour SVT, a Contour sport and a Focus. I brought the Focus back after one day as I couldn't stand it. It felt like a 1970/1980's Dodge. Rattles and it just felt chintzy. I drove other cars but didn't buy them for various reasons, the VW diesel beetle was wayyyy too pricey for instance, as was the SVT. The newer ones are better (I looked at one for my daughter) but they are unispiring and still butt ugly.

I don't hate anything, but when I drive, ride or fly it has to be in or on something that stirs the soul even just a little bit. Appearances can be overlooked in the presense of other endearing qualities such as handling, comfort or performance and the Focus, in my opinion has none.

Jim
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:11 PM   #73
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Because I HAVE driven one. When I bought my Contour in 2000 I took three different cars out for two days each, a Contour SVT, a Contour sport and a Focus. I brought the Focus back after one day as I couldn't stand it. It felt like a 1970/1980's Dodge. Rattles and it just felt chintzy. I drove other cars but didn't buy them for various reasons, the VW diesel beetle was wayyyy too pricey for instance, as was the SVT. The newer ones are better (I looked at one for my daughter) but they are unispiring and still butt ugly.

I don't hate anything, but when I drive, ride or fly it has to be in or on something that stirs the soul even just a little bit. Appearances can be overlooked in the presense of other endearing qualities such as handling, comfort or performance and the Focus, in my opinion has none.

Jim
The problem is, you drove a 2000 MY Focus which was the Focus of lower quality.. The Focus of later years had much higher quality to it than the one you drove.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:55 PM   #74
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If I were to purchase a FE wagon I would either go for the 240 diesel, or I might be able to force myself to buy a Taurus wagon, but my family has had less than stellar experiences with the Taurus line. When they run, they run great, but every problem that seemed to come up was major.
Why can't you get the Volvo 240 with a gasoline engine and a manual transmission? Thanks to diesel costing more than gasoline and the mileage only being marginally better in the Diesel Volvo, there isn't really a whole lot of point with going with the diesel. Also the Diesel Volvo is gutless according to this:http://home.blarg.net/~volvo242gt/Volvo140.html & this: http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/...sel/84D_04.htm.. Car only has like 80bhp and 103lb-ft of torque while the gasoline version has 114 hp and 136 ft. Ibs of torque. Probably the reason for this is because the diesel vehicle isn't turbo charged, though the gasoline version isn't either.

So why would you want a vehicle that is gutless and gets only marginally better mileage? Also, since you're pretty much never going to get the diesel version, you pretty much have the choice between getting a 240 and not getting a 240.
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:02 PM   #75
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Why can't you get the Volvo 240 with a gasoline engine and a manual transmission? Thanks to diesel costing more than gasoline and the mileage only being marginally better in the Diesel Volvo, there isn't really a whole lot of point with going with the diesel. Also the Diesel Volvo is gutless according to this:http://home.blarg.net/~volvo242gt/Volvo140.html & this: http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/...sel/84D_04.htm.. Car only has like 80bhp and 103lb-ft of torque while the gasoline version has 114 hp and 136 ft. Ibs of torque. Probably the reason for this is because the diesel vehicle isn't turbo charged, though the gasoline version isn't either.

So why would you want a vehicle that is gutless and gets only marginally better mileage? Also, since you're pretty much never going to get the diesel version, you pretty much have the choice between getting a 240 and not getting a 240.

Because he doesn't want to, for whatever reason he has.


And in all honesty, even if he was seriously considering getting one, I doubt he would after your incessant bickering with him. I know that your downright rude, repetitive, and downright annoying insistance would have turned ME off of getting anything just because you were suggesting it.


I don't care how good a service and/or product is, or how beneficial it is, if the salesman is an ***hole, I won't buy it, I'll find a different service and/or product.

And you, are a very insistent, rude, and high pressure salesman, and I'm sorry, but I'm not buying whatever you are selling, and I wouldn't doubt it if Jay has the same thoughts.









IT'S NOT A MATTER OF WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A GOOD CHOICE!

Currently the simple fact that you need to know is this:

HE HAS ALREADY CONSIDERED HIS OPTIONS, AND DECIDED NOT TO!



NOW SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY!
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:21 PM   #76
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IT'S NOT A MATTER OF WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A GOOD CHOICE!

Currently the simple fact that you need to know is this:

HE HAS ALREADY CONSIDERED HIS OPTIONS, AND DECIDED NOT TO!
Hmm.. I thought it was a matter of good choice.. I'm not all bad, if there are two ways of accomplishing something "good" and one is much harder but not equally that much better, I'll suggest the easier route. In other words, even though I think people should just give up and buy a Prius, I'll compromise by suggesting some other vehicle, even though both vehicles could very well suffice. I tend to push people to do the right thing, what do I care if they don't do it? Well, my suggestions to "do the right thing" are always in their best interest, so they either do it or they don't, but if they're already of the mindset that they're not going to do it, then me telling them to do it isn't going to have an effect anyway.

Here is one way to think of it, you're sitting on the fence on a particular idea and you're not sure to go forward or go back. Some people are just before the fence, some people are way before the fence, some people are just ahead of the fence and some are way ahead of the fence. Assuming your observation about Jay is true, he very well could be far way from the fence (behind it).. I wasn't quite sure what Jay's relation to the fence was until I probed him some more in this thread. I've attempted to push him closer towards the fence, however one thing you have to understand is that if someone is too far away from the fence, it's very difficult to push someone all the way up to the fence and then over the fence. I don't feel I've been all that rude and when you consider that I've been holding back quite a bit, I think I've done well. Also, I am fully aware that I can't convince people in a single conversation and that every conversation you have with someone can end negatively, even if one has exhausted all resources to persuade them otherwise. But at the very least, I would have hoped that I pushed him closer to the fence and that over time he will eventually make it over the fence.

I know to you I appear aggressive but I really wasn't, you're just being defensive because possibly you share the same mindset of him even if it doesn't make any sense. You're certainly not going to change people's point of view overnight, and so long as you can prove how your point of view is reasonable, over time, people may change their behaviors...or they may not. Some people are incredibly stubborn, like myself, however if I come across enough of the right set of data points and given some time, my point of view can change nearly instantly.


Just to let you know, when I was in high school, I reached my peak as an energy pig back in 2005, almost to the point of getting a dedicated air conditioner installed in my room due to my usage of high energy consuming electronics without a care in the world. After that, my consumption of energy has declined not in small increments but in large ones, mostly when I come to discover that a particular habit of mine is wasteful and stupid. I'm pretty pragmatic about things and usually can empathize with people, however there comes a point where if people are suffering due to their ingrained habits, to the point of addiction, I just simply cannot care and make it a point to point out that it's their own damned fault. Jay doesn't care enough about the price of gasoline, but when it gets back to $4+ (it reached $5 where I live at one point), he'll start to care again and it may rekindle what motivated him to join this site in the first place. To save money on fuel will take precedence over his desire to drive his gashog of a pickup truck.. I essentially want people to understand that "just because everybody's doing it" doesn't mean it makes any sense..


Go ahead, whine some more about how I "just won't give up"...
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:34 PM   #77
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Biffmeistro, Jay, and myself will now consider buying one of these...http://www.fordvehicles.com/f150raptor/ to spite the "green" crowd!
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:01 PM   #78
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Biffmeistro, Jay, and myself will now consider buying one of these...http://www.fordvehicles.com/f150raptor/ to spite the "green" crowd!
Ooooh... Now that is a nice looking truck....


Though I think I might rather have a Jeep Wrangler J8, with a mil spec 5.7 hemi (No cats, of course)
I do prefer a bit more compact of a vehicle.

http://jalopnik.com/5201252/aev-j8-m...-for-civilians


Either that or a classic 'cuda with a 440.
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:29 PM   #79
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Biffmeistro, Jay, and myself will now consider buying one of these...http://www.fordvehicles.com/f150raptor/ to spite the "green" crowd!
Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.. Notice how I never mentioned anything about the environment and how we're all going to pay dearly for our mistakes and selfishness? This is why, because of idiocy like this.. Just the large discrepancy in fuel economy and measurable cost savings is an argument that can stand alone on its own two feet. Funny thing, I used to have this exact reaction to people such as myself, almost verbatim.. I can't quite pinpoint what got me to change..
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Old 07-04-2010, 08:05 PM   #80
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This thread has run terribly off-topic, and has run its course. I'm not selling my truck, and that's my final answer. This topic of discussion is now closed. I would also like to state, that if I see another member given the kind of heat I was given in this thread, disciplinary action will be taken. Hassling members to the point that most would just leave and never come back is not the goal of this site. The goal is to help people save fuel, no matter what they drive. If you run people off, how are you going to help them save fuel?
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