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Old 06-17-2010, 05:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jim T. View Post
Yea I'm sure a true unbiased opinion on oil exploration can be found at "treehugger". Pffft.

Like trying to get accurate information on gun statistics on handgun control inc's website!

Don't just bleat mindlessly about the evils of oil, find and/or present a solution or shut up!

Jim
ROFL. The guy who claimed ANWR can supply the USA's oil needs for the next 150 years AND blamed the BP spill on treehuggers talks about bleating mindlessly? Get real. My ANWR figures came from DOE and Wikipedia.
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:44 PM   #22
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You "drill, baby, drill" advocates just p*ssed away $40,000,000,000 in your mindless lust for drilling. How about YOU present your solution to the problem? (Hint, it ain't more drilling, and it sure as heck isn't Jim T's ridiculous ANWR drilling 150 year "solution.")

You guys want to line up behind Joe Barton, go ahead. Doesn't surprise me.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:18 PM   #23
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Ha, there's some good opinions in this thread.
I was just thinking that this disaster will make every other well (current and future) more expensive due to the extra safety requirements that are sure to come about. I guess it doesn't matter since the high gas prices in 2008 didn't really deter us from using gas. Now that I've mulled it over, the price of gas will have to rise significantly before demand drops. OTOH there are a few viable alternatives available, so any large rise in gas prices will just steer consumers toward alternative fuel vehicles.

sigh, the problem with being conservative is that I can't even take my own side in an argument.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:08 AM   #24
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Thank you Sentra for being THE voice of reason here.

Jesus, people, it ain't that hard especially in the internet age to do a bit of research to get the real facts; then your opinions have a better chance of being worth more than two ishts.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:19 AM   #25
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typical worthless stats/facts(in THAT context).

i respect the view to get off of fossil fuels...NOW. and with it subsequent higher taxes and a complete collapse economically. i see 2 options for said individuals:

the easy one is simply leave the US--go to Europe, Canada, wherever. the US was founded to be different from others.

the other is to stay, but walk away from ALL fossil fuels. go live in the wilderness w/ no car, machinery, heat, a/c, etc. next, grow and eat only veggies, pesticide free of course.

if not, change your principles to match up w/ honesty and reality!!!
wtf?

Those "stats" Sentra presented are nothing more or less than a way to help the average joe blow conceptualize such humongous numbers... and also conceptualize how badly off our national energy priorities are.

I constructed an analogy for the quantities of ANWR oil vs. U.S. consumption years ago for the very same reason; I calculated the volume of the biggest local landmark, and how fast it would be depleted of oil were it oil filled and consumed at current rates. THEN the brains were better able to wrap around the numbers!

and the rest of that, you just plain lost me.

People should be able to use the resource wisely and greatly extend the time we have it. Reducing every issue in the world to a black/white contrast simply doesn't work as the world is composed of shades of grey...
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:29 PM   #26
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research? let's look at what has been done, what could have been done and what could be(and IF it will REALLY work). ya know, fossil fuels, climate change, alternative fuels...that kinda stuff.
http://www.truthaboutenergy.com/
http://www.thedailygreen.com/environ...mate-bill-0521
http://www.thedailygreen.com/environ...te-change-0507
http://www.globalwarming.org/2010/06...Warming.org%29
http://www.eco-imperialism.com/conte...le.php3?id=243
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA582.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1546...newable-energy
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:59 PM   #27
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Interesting links- thanks. Some of them were a curious combination of truth and slanted ideology, but OK.

Still I can't shake the belief that people make things much more difficult and complex than they need be.

The bottom line is:

Energy use per U.S. household has skyrocketed up in the last few decades;

The population continues to grow;

Most of our energy is fossil fuel based;

Fossil fuels are a finite resource;

Therefore what we have is ever increasing demand for an ever dwindling resource.

You can't drill your way out of that forever.

There are those that take issue- perhaps rightly so- with one or more of those premises.

That is fine. It doesn't change the fact that we are facing a problem that is growing larger, not smaller.

It also doesn't change the fact that we really aren't on the road to properly addressing the issue(s) either.

I think getting all wound up about whether climate change or global warming is real or not is not much more than a diversion. Of course the climate changes over time, human intervention or not. BUT of course no one can claim combustion emissions are a good thing either. Anyone that does can feel free to sit in their garage with an idling engine and get back to me later...

Frankly I don't understand why people stress about it so much. Well, actually I do, but the reality of it pains me so.

People don't have to wait for government, or industry, or science, their boss, or even their church to solve this.

Just do it.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Not having more than two kids is probably the numero uno thing people can do to keep their household energy use down. DAH. Do that and the big picture solutions fall into place as well.

Then there are the many ways individuals can keep their consumption low. Basically it comes down to having an awareness of it.

Human nature seems to have a large greedy slob component built right in. When people have an awareness of it, by using their God-given brains they can easily manage their actions.

How many people have that awareness now?

Exactly. Not many.

Why?

A combination of things, including willful ignorance- or just plain real ignorance- indifference, protection of inflexible ideologies, or whatever.

The only thing that gets the indifferent consumers' attention is price.

If it's high enough, well what do you know, it becomes in one's best interest to conserve.

And conservation and/or transition to other energy sources is desireable (I'd say necessary) when you have a growing demand/dwindling supply scenario.

Wish it didn't have to be that way... well is there a better idea?
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theclencher View Post
Just do it.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
We're all doing that here, regardless of our motivation.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:26 PM   #29
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I'd say the breeders aren't, but most others are.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:53 PM   #30
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well clencher, i must say that was an excellent post, and i agree w/ most of it. what i'm trying to convey is that:
1)BP does not deserve sole blame
2)weather(pun intended) or not global warming is real, govt cannot be trusted to raise taxes and spend that revenue properly. first let's get govt waste, corruption, and otherwise all spending under control, then we can look at the tax codes, fees, etc.
3)in the mean time, it is imperative to continue to drill(and find new deposits) WHILE pursuing and promoting alternative fuel, AND of course encourage conservation.

just like our fossil fuel issue, our current form and path of govt is not sustainable. in fact, there's a good chance that we could go bankrupt before we run out of oil!

and btw, i fall into the "breeder" catagory--i have 3 girls. all of them know where i stand on conservation, and i'm doing my best to pass that on to them. but, as always, i would never take offense to your difference in opinion. at the end of the day, throwing rocks, fists, or insults...we can remain friends.
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