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Old 03-22-2007, 10:50 PM   #21
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That's more than I've ever done to help the homeless. That took balls dude. I've always loved the idea of having a huge homeless parade so that normal people could see just how bad the problem is, but it would be difficult to organize it given that I have not experienced what these people have nor will ever pretend to, and difficult to prevent anyone from getting hurt by the police in the process.

I've heard of a sociologist who did an experiment. He lived homeless for a month, like these people do. The difference is, he knew he had a nice warm home to come back to when it was all over. For perhaps millions of Americans, they don't have that to look forward to. Worse yet, he discovered that about 1/3 of them had full time jobs, but couldn't afford a place to live because wages are too low and housing costs too inflated.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:55 AM   #22
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That's more than I've ever done to help the homeless. That took balls dude. I've always loved the idea of having a huge homeless parade so that normal people could see just how bad the problem is, but it would be difficult to organize it given that I have not experienced what these people have nor will ever pretend to, and difficult to prevent anyone from getting hurt by the police in the process.

I've heard of a sociologist who did an experiment. He lived homeless for a month, like these people do. The difference is, he knew he had a nice warm home to come back to when it was all over. For perhaps millions of Americans, they don't have that to look forward to. Worse yet, he discovered that about 1/3 of them had full time jobs, but couldn't afford a place to live because wages are too low and housing costs too inflated.
Was that the fellow who would beg for handouts and spare change? He told about how his whole personality "caved in" during that time, and how he started taking on homeless personality traits and such.

There but for the grace ...

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Old 03-23-2007, 07:12 PM   #23
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he discovered that about 1/3 of them had full time jobs, but couldn't afford a place to live because wages are too low and housing costs too inflated.
That was the case in Miami when I was working with them. Most of them were working full time or more at above minimum wage rates.

It's easier than you might think though to organize a protest. Go to a few and start going to the meetings of the groups involved to see how they run. Eventually, set a time and place for your own demo and let these groups know ahead of time and you'll be able to get a turnout. Thanks to the internet, there are thousands of small groups out there. It's just a matter of getting them together.

Miami was something special though. That was a series of accidents and miracles that compounded themselves until we had a demonstration consisting of the people affected rather than the rich white college students that normally frequent such demonstrations. The thing that I wanted to do more than anything though was do a red carpet party crash with the homeless. We were trying to find a limo service to give us a free ride to a red carpet event in which we would get into the VIP line in the limo and unload onto the red carpet with as many homeless people as we could fit into the limo all with signs. That would have been one hell of a culture shock for all of the people there to try to get their favorite celebrity's autograph.

If you're ever in the Miami area, I highly suggest visiting the Umoja Village. It's a shantytown that the homeless built in Liberty City in response to the housing crisis in the city. There are about 40 homeless people living in this shantytown on public land (that ironically used to be public housing before being destroyed), and they're always in need of food and help. When I was there, I was helping spread mulch around the village, and working on a well that was being built to provide water. The goal of the village is to become a self sustained community. They now have a small garden, they have a kitchen, and quite a few shacks. I've done alot of work there, and think that what they're doing is just beautiful.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:46 PM   #24
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It's just a matter of getting them together.
And without managing to have the FBI come to your door and point guns at you.

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The thing that I wanted to do more than anything though was do a red carpet party crash with the homeless. We were trying to find a limo service to give us a free ride to a red carpet event in which we would get into the VIP line in the limo and unload onto the red carpet with as many homeless people as we could fit into the limo all with signs. That would have been one hell of a culture shock for all of the people there to try to get their favorite celebrity's autograph.
Would have made an excellent video. The reaction of the gentrified classes would have been priceless.

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If you're ever in the Miami area, I highly suggest visiting the Umoja Village. It's a shantytown that the homeless built in Liberty City in response to the housing crisis in the city. There are about 40 homeless people living in this shantytown on public land (that ironically used to be public housing before being destroyed), and they're always in need of food and help. When I was there, I was helping spread mulch around the village, and working on a well that was being built to provide water. The goal of the village is to become a self sustained community. They now have a small garden, they have a kitchen, and quite a few shacks. I've done alot of work there, and think that what they're doing is just beautiful.
If I'm ever in that area, I'd be more than happy to try to help set up renewable wind energy systems.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:54 PM   #25
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well ive found lots of stuff. but biggest thing was a whole mostly working riding mower. everythign worked just needed a battery and a engine cleaning. but the tranny wasnt workign right after a while so i swapped everyhting i could use off it onto my old old "fun toy" ridermower.:




lol yes looks liek crap cuz im currently building a body for it.

heres a pic of the front end so far


i essentially turned it into a racing lawnmower. goes 40mph (yes 40 mph) can pop a wheelie quite easily (also quite scary) and is the best thing to have in the winter/snowy roads. i havent had the fun of taking it to a mud hole yet...but soon oh so soon.
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:20 AM   #26
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I'd have so much fun with a lawnmower like that. I'd take it to the local Dollar General and terrorize the parking lot.
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Old 03-25-2007, 07:20 AM   #27
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I don't dumpster dive. I cant stand other folks junk. I wont even buy a used car or motorcycle anymore. My wife is a yard sale thrift store *****. Ive had to put my foot down about that. She will go to goodwill and other thrift stores or yard sales looking for jeans for me. She spends all that time and gas money doing this and then I get jeans that the *** rips out in. Total waste of time and money. Just yesterday she bought me a magnifying glass and a stupid little locomotive made out of a old spark plug. What in the heck am I going to do with the stupid spark plug loco? And the mag. glass. Its scratched up and has horid optics. I just threw them in my trash can in front of her. God I hope she quits this crap!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-25-2007, 07:49 AM   #28
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The food you can't get for free is food you end up having to buy. The stores obviously know this. Their reasoning is that if you can't afford it, do without. They only want to maximize their profits.

Nevermind all of the perfectly good food that will go to waste. The reason so many people on this planet are starving is not because there isn't enough food. There's plenty, enough for perhaps 12 billion people(albeit, this is propped up by unsustainable consumption of fossil fuels). The vast majority of it is wasted. The real problem is that those living in absolute poverty simply cannot afford it. Large companies that own the land the food is produced on artificially drive the price up to fatten their margins, because they know the wealthy first world countries will still pay it.

The fact that there has not yet been a large scale rebellion of the world's 2 billion poorest people astounds me, let alone a rebellion of America's hundreds of thousands(more likely even millions) of homeless.
What BS!!!!

I live in a democrat poverty ridden county and town. You want to eat you can eat. May have to go to mission and listen to something you don't want to hear. Or do something like WORK!!!!! They don't want to do. Don't tell me there isn't any work. Ive never been without a job or money in my pocket unless I wanted to be. You know what the biggest building project was last year in my county. Welfare housing. Yep they built more places for the welfare crowd to live. Half the bloody town is welfare hosing to start with. The homeless aren't going to rebel. That would mean they would have to do something. I don't want to hear about all the starving children in India or the death's in Africa. The African mess is rooted in drought and politics. If they would get there politics in order. I might help. Same with India. And other country's. I'm real sick and tired of the activist and socialist that think I need to work my *** off to pay for the lazy and down trodden. You have so many soap box's to preach from I wonder if your not in need of some major medical care at times. There is no such thing as utopia. Its not going to happen. If its not the government,,, its corporations. There's always a bad guy. Must be Hellish to live like that.

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Old 03-25-2007, 11:49 AM   #29
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I live in a democrat poverty ridden county and town. You want to eat you can eat. May have to go to mission and listen to something you don't want to hear. Or do something like WORK!!!!! They don't want to do.
Location is everything. Here in St. Louis, many of these places exist, are operating at(and often over) capacity, and it still isn't enough. A homeless shelter near my university often has to turn away people because it doesn't have enough room. I've done volunteer work for a meal delivery service to the poor, and there simply wasn't enough funding available to meet the needs of everyone who wanted these services.

Those who received these services were mostly incapable of working. Extremely old, disabled, mentally-impaired, terminally ill, ect. One specific case that stuck in my head very well was a U.S. Veteran; he passed away in July 2005, living alone and in poverty.

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Don't tell me there isn't any work. Ive never been without a job or money in my pocket unless I wanted to be.
I once spent 2 years looking for a job in order to raise money for my EV conversion, including the lowest position minimum wage jobs. Anything. There simply wasn't enough jobs to go around, at least where I live. Unlike most people, I had the luxury of being a college student living under my parents' roof, and was able to get temporary jobs around my university(were I not a student, I wouldn't have gotten these jobs). I'm not surprised that there are so many homeless people where I live given this experience. At least there is a demand for engineers and I won't wind up in that position WITHOUT a parents roof to live under.

Imagine that you are homeless, without the luxury of being able to clean yourself up whenever you need to, having to keep all your belongings in trash bags and hide them behind dumpsters to reduce the liklihood of them getting stolen, and constantly having to stay on foot because of anti loitering laws. You have no permanent address to use when you apply for a job(many employers in urban areas will ignore applications that use PO boxes for addresses), and if you are interviewed, you certainly won't get hired looking like a bum. If you're mentally impaired or have a mental disorder, it's even worse, as you probably don't even have a high school diploma next to your name. Even the Dollar Generals and grocery stores in my area are asking for that now!

There are of course a lot of homeless who got that way because of drug abuse, a very significant portion even, but those certainly are not the majority.

And then there are homeless who are working, and still need to rely on the services of others so that they have a place to live or food to eat. Minimum wage just isn't enough.

Maybe they could just move out of the city? Sounds easy enough, until you find that outside there is far less help available in the more middle class areas, that most homeless don't have a car(almost a necessity to get around in areas that lack mass transit), cheap housing is even harder to find(the cheapest you'll get is East St. Louis, one of the most dangerous ghettos in the US), and for those homeless who already have jobs, why would they put themselves in jeopady even further by quitting their job to look for another one? Any job is better than no job.

If it truly were that easy, the homeless population would be greatly reduced in number. The real truth is that a good number have jobs with roughly 1/3 working full time and it simply isn't enough to live off of, most are mentally impaired or disabled to some extent, and yet more HATE the situation they are living in, yet have lost any hope of it ever changing.

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I don't want to hear about all the starving children in India or the death's in Africa. The African mess is rooted in drought and politics. If they would get there politics in order. I might help. Same with India. And other country's.
Politics of nations like these is an affair that 1st world countries or business interests from these countries have stuck their nose in and manipulated all too often, having made the situation for the people in these countries even worse.

In Iraq for instance, Monsanto managed to outlaw farmers from storing their own seed, trying to push onto the people there the GE seeds that don't reproduce, so that in order to grow food legally, the people there will need to keep buying that product over and over.

Incidences like that have a huge effect on the world, causing a lot of problems for millions of people so that a few can make a large profit.

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I'm real sick and tired of the activist and socialist that think I need to work my *** off to pay for the lazy and down trodden.
I don't believe you should be compelled to at all. No where did I ever say that.

I may dabble in activism from time to time, but I'm certainly not a socialist.(although anyone who is shouldn't be afraid to argue in favor of their position, either. It's supposed to be a free country, after all.) I don't agree with personal income taxes, universal healthcare, social security and similar ponzi schemes, and the like. In fact, such schemes are literally unconstitutional just looking at what powers that document grants the government.

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There is no such thing as utopia. Its not going to happen. If its not the government,,, its corporations. There's always a bad guy. Must be Hellish to live like that.
While there may be no such thing as 'utopia', certainly it is useful to adress the problems society is facing(war, pollution, starvation, ect.), especially when they stem from any organized bureaucracy seeking to exploit or control a group of people or their property in order to collect revenue. That places the bureaucracy at fault for these problems, even though they don't like to take responsibility. Personal responsibility doesn't work just one way.

If a company pollutes your land and causes harm to your property in the process, or if their pollution causes you medical problems, do they not at least owe you compensation? If a government sprays defoliating agents over a nation's farmland, are they not responsible for the starvation that later results? If a few corporations successfully lobby a government to go to war, and that government manages to install another dictator in place of whoever the former leader was, aren't both parties responsible? Yet in so many cases, these entities aren't held accountable for the harm their actions cause to others as individual people usually are.

I can think of much more hellish ways to live. Given that I have access to a computer, an automobile, enough food to eat, and an education, I have it pretty damn good. But that doesn't mean I should immediately be satisfied with conditions that may not be affecting me personally just because, like so many others are.
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:31 PM   #30
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Location is everything. Here in St. Louis, many of these places exist, are operating at(and often over) capacity, and it still isn't enough. A homeless shelter near my university often has to turn away people because it doesn't have enough room. I've done volunteer work for a meal delivery service to the poor, and there simply wasn't enough funding available to meet the needs of everyone who wanted these services.

Those who received these services were mostly incapable of working. Extremely old, disabled, mentally-impaired, terminally ill, ect. One specific case that stuck in my head very well was a U.S. Veteran; he passed away in July 2005, living alone and in poverty.



I once spent 2 years looking for a job in order to raise money for my EV conversion, including the lowest position minimum wage jobs. Anything. There simply wasn't enough jobs to go around, at least where I live. Unlike most people, I had the luxury of being a college student living under my parents' roof, and was able to get temporary jobs around my university(were I not a student, I wouldn't have gotten these jobs). I'm not surprised that there are so many homeless people where I live given this experience. At least there is a demand for engineers and I won't wind up in that position WITHOUT a parents roof to live under.

Imagine that you are homeless, without the luxury of being able to clean yourself up whenever you need to, having to keep all your belongings in trash bags and hide them behind dumpsters to reduce the liklihood of them getting stolen, and constantly having to stay on foot because of anti loitering laws. You have no permanent address to use when you apply for a job(many employers in urban areas will ignore applications that use PO boxes for addresses), and if you are interviewed, you certainly won't get hired looking like a bum. If you're mentally impaired or have a mental disorder, it's even worse, as you probably don't even have a high school diploma next to your name. Even the Dollar Generals and grocery stores in my area are asking for that now!

There are of course a lot of homeless who got that way because of drug abuse, a very significant portion even, but those certainly are not the majority.

And then there are homeless who are working, and still need to rely on the services of others so that they have a place to live or food to eat. Minimum wage just isn't enough.

Maybe they could just move out of the city? Sounds easy enough, until you find that outside there is far less help available in the more middle class areas, that most homeless don't have a car(almost a necessity to get around in areas that lack mass transit), cheap housing is even harder to find(the cheapest you'll get is East St. Louis, one of the most dangerous ghettos in the US), and for those homeless who already have jobs, why would they put themselves in jeopady even further by quitting their job to look for another one? Any job is better than no job.

If it truly were that easy, the homeless population would be greatly reduced in number. The real truth is that a good number have jobs with roughly 1/3 working full time and it simply isn't enough to live off of, most are mentally impaired or disabled to some extent, and yet more HATE the situation they are living in, yet have lost any hope of it ever changing.



Politics of nations like these is an affair that 1st world countries or business interests from these countries have stuck their nose in and manipulated all too often, having made the situation for the people in these countries even worse.

In Iraq for instance, Monsanto managed to outlaw farmers from storing their own seed, trying to push onto the people there the GE seeds that don't reproduce, so that in order to grow food legally, the people there will need to keep buying that product over and over.

Incidences like that have a huge effect on the world, causing a lot of problems for millions of people so that a few can make a large profit.



I don't believe you should be compelled to at all. No where did I ever say that.

I may dabble in activism from time to time, but I'm certainly not a socialist.(although anyone who is shouldn't be afraid to argue in favor of their position, either. It's supposed to be a free country, after all.) I don't agree with personal income taxes, universal healthcare, social security and similar ponzi schemes, and the like. In fact, such schemes are literally unconstitutional just looking at what powers that document grants the government.



While there may be no such thing as 'utopia', certainly it is useful to adress the problems society is facing(war, pollution, starvation, ect.), especially when they stem from any organized bureaucracy seeking to exploit or control a group of people or their property in order to collect revenue. That places the bureaucracy at fault for these problems, even though they don't like to take responsibility. Personal responsibility doesn't work just one way.

If a company pollutes your land and causes harm to your property in the process, or if their pollution causes you medical problems, do they not at least owe you compensation? If a government sprays defoliating agents over a nation's farmland, are they not responsible for the starvation that later results? If a few corporations successfully lobby a government to go to war, and that government manages to install another dictator in place of whoever the former leader was, aren't both parties responsible? Yet in so many cases, these entities aren't held accountable for the harm their actions cause to others as individual people usually are.

I can think of much more hellish ways to live. Given that I have access to a computer, an automobile, enough food to eat, and an education, I have it pretty damn good. But that doesn't mean I should immediately be satisfied with conditions that may not be affecting me personally just because, like so many others are.
You pretty much summed up everything I was going to say.

I too, am not a socialist, or even a leftist. I am pretty close to an anarchist. I work very hard, and in my spare time do what I can to help others. This is not a hand-out, or socialism, it is humanism. After spending time with the homeless and downtrodden (and in Miami, they have it really bad), I have changed my views a few years ago that the homeless are lazy or drug addicts. Some are, but most have to work harder than you or I just to survive. The housing problem in Miami is really terrible. The city politicians and developers has stolen almost $100 million (that we know of) from public housing literally to line their own pockets. They are destroying their public housing units in one of the poorest cities in the US and intentionally leaving the lots empty. Some of the lots have been given (not sold, given) to developers to build "affordable" housing starting at $200k for a one bedroom condo. This is a situation created by the city to boost the already booming real estate industry.

Also, Toecutter, we're working on renewable energy at Umoja. Someone is working on getting a donation of solar panels to run the pump at the well and a filtration system to get clean water, but if you have access to a wind generator that you aren't using, they could definitely use more power for other things like lights or maybe a TV.

Sometime over the next few months when I have more free time, I'm probably going to see what I can do about building a gravity and solar powered shower/hot water system to get them some hot water. Right now all that they're using for showering is a 5 gallon igloo cooler filled with water sitting on top of a make shift stand and surrounded by plywood for privacy.

I'm working out plans for something like this: http://www.watersavers.com/docs/wate...doorshwr.shtml.

They used to have a composting toilet, but it wasn't enough to handle the 40 people living there.
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