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Old 10-21-2008, 10:03 AM   #1
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Google acting wonky?

Check it out...I was trying to google up one of my old posts here, and found this odd behavior. Google by default does AND searches, which makes it much better for narrowing in on your results than vbulletin's built-in search (which can't do AND searches even if you explicitly give it AND as an operator). As you add keywords or phrases, the quantity of results returned goes down. As you remove keywords or phrases, the quantity of results goes up.

I tried this search:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...ouse+amp+hours
Quote:
Results 1 - 3 of 3 from gassavers.org for theholycow electric service house amp hours. (0.24 seconds)
There were 3 results. None of them were right.

So I took one word out:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...ouse+amp+hours
Quote:
No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.
Your search - site:gassavers.org theholycow service house amp hours - did not match any documents.
WTF? If it could return 3 results for the first search, which contained a superset of these search terms, it should be able to find at least those same 3 results with all these terms...

(In case you're wondering, I was going to find some calculations I did regarding minimum charging time for an electric car based on power available to an average house, for this thread.)
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:11 AM   #2
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Google has been pissing me off for different reasons.

It normally only cares about 4 search terms for a start. There's no effective way of narrowing results with additional terms. But the big PITA lately is that it pushes $$$ commercial sites way up to the top of the list out of all proportion to their relavance. You can do a four term search and the first two pages are $ites with only 2 terms matching and your actual relevant results are 4 or 5 pages in.

Also occasionally you can break into an almost googless universe of webpages that you can't re-find with google using any number of terms pulled from the page, or even direct quotes. It's not to do with robots.txt banning them from crawling it either.

Sometimes you have to force the and operator by doing a +term1 +term2 +term3 +term4 type thing to break out of the commercial irrelevance that it throws up.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:08 AM   #3
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in reference to the thread which you were doing the research, most houses have a 200 amp service drop but that doesn't mean that they can supply 200 amps to one outlet.

most breakers are 15 or 20 amps. there is your limitation unless you use a larger one set for a dryer or stove which I think (may be wrong) is still just a 40 amp breaker. but then you have to use much larger wire and (done correctly) pay an licensed electrician to do the work also. I guess that expense is a small price to pay after you shell out the 30k or so for the electric car.

I did see somewhere that you could do a "fast charge" that only took 2 hours but that is still a long time to wait to go another 50 miles (or whatever the range is). found that after I posted the other thread
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:28 AM   #4
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Most houses do not have 200 amp service. Most houses built in the last fifteen years, sure, they would. Few have more than 200 but many have 100, and a lot of older houses around here have 50.

I wasn't concerned with breaker size. That doesn't matter when you just don't have enough power from the service. In your numbers, you also forgot 240v and phase questions.

In the post I was looking for, I had put all of the numbers together, figured that against the energy it takes to go X miles with a car, and figured out the absolute fastest charge that was possible, which was far more than what someone proposed.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:41 AM   #5
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Yeah 240 volts at 30-40 amps is about what you can expect from a electric range and or electric drier output plug and you have to derate that also i.e. you can't draw 40 amps from a 40 amp breaker or it will trip after several minutes - more like 10-15% less than the rating. Still it comes out to 240*35 = 8400 watts so a couple of hours and the typical 15kwh battery pack would be charged up. Don't expect to run any heavy electrical appliences in the house when charging your car up though. And you really want an off peak meter to charge the car up so you get a lower rate and then that restricts when you can charge even more but it can save you about half the cost of peak charging which comes out to a couple of bucks each charging.
Keep in mind that the standard Lithium cells don't last as long when you charge them fast - they last a lot longer if charged slowly.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:55 AM   #6
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what phase? your house is single phase. you do have a positive and negative phase but that is because of the center tapped transformer at the pole. if you were to use the 220 line (or 240 whatever) then you are simply going across the entire secondary of the transformer and not half of it. you do have twice the wattage capability there but it is still the same amperage rating.

I was looking at it from the opposite point of view. with a 200 amp service drop. you could sufficiently charge a vehicle in a much shorter amount of time but you would have to cut off the rest of your house completely and run 2 gauge or larger wire to the car which may inturn burn up its wiring because of undersizing.

I was not aware of the imitations of the batteries themselves. most electric vehicles that I have seen that actually have 4 wheels are limited to around 25mph anyway (the relatively affordable ones not like the tesla) which makes them impractical and I don't feel confident enough in a 3-wheelers stability to put my family in one. also the safety issues since they don't have to pass all the safety standards as they are considered a motorcycle.
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