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Old 08-25-2016, 11:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SteveMak View Post
Understood and agreed! But I assume that you've been on top of the world press, in which a number reports have come from the UK, in which the UK government did tailpipe tests under real world conditions on a number of non-VW diesels, and they discovered that virtually all tested diesels (including BMW, Mercedes, GM, Mazda and others), regardless of brand or model, emitted many multiples of beyond-lab-legal levels of emissions outside of the lab. They then tested VW's gasoline (petrol) vehicles, and found a similar situation. They then tested a number of non-VW gasoline (petrol) vehicles, and found virtually all produced multiple times beyond-lab-legal levels of emissions outside of the lab, regardless of model or brand.

These reports have shown up in Canada, where I live, but then... nothing. The media does not follow up, or continue to highlight this info. Instead, they focus solely on VW.

In my mind, this does not diminish VW's wrongdoing, but it does highlight a hugely important fact that seems to be missed by the media, politicians (legislators), and most media consumers: What is the issue? The fact that VW cheated during emissions tests? This is what the media, politicians, and virtually all media consumers focus on! Or is the real problem, the "big deal" so to speak, the fact that these vehicles emit many multiples of lab-legal emissions when operating in the real world? The answer I hear most often, by far, is the focus on the cheating method. Ok, then fine: VW, pass the lab-test without cheating, and continue to sell your 40x lab-legal diesels, because they ARE clean (in the lab), and that's all that matters! This is the majority view.

I don't feel that way. I hold the view the real problem is the high, real-world emissions. And because of that view, I see VW as not being the sole culprit. I observe that exceptionally few people hold this view.
The non-profit that funded the West Virginia University study that caught VW's cheating, funded studies showing cars exceeding emission limits on the road years previous to catching VW. This was in comparison to EU regulated emissions. Without further evidence of cheating, all this shows is how far removed the regulation test cycles are from how the cars are actually driven in the real world. The EPA test cycles are based upon driving styles from the 1950's. Europe's and Japan's test cycles are less demanding on the car and engine than those.

In the study that caught VW, a BMW SUV was also tested. It only showed notably higher NOx emissions on one test section, and it was still lower than what the VW's emitted. The VW's had high NOx emissions over the entire test.

The test cycles should be revised, but it is possible to have cars pass the current ones, and not grossly exceed limits when driven by the consumer.

Originally Posted by Draigflag View Post
VW actually had the cleanest engines overall when tested under real world conditions. Vauxhall, who are a brand of GM actually came out worse, wonder if they published those stories and sales of GM vehicles have dropped too? Doubt it. People are too influenced by the media these days, easier to let a third party decide your opinion for you lol
Europe's regulations for car emissions are more lax than the US's. M-B diesels were shutting off the emission controls when air temperatures were fall-like, and this is allowed under the regulation. GM Europe was taking advantage of similar loopholes in European rules.

There is no such loopholes for US models, and GM diesels use SCR to meet regulations. After VW was caught, the EPA scrutinized the other makes, and GM diesels got a pass. Presumably, so did the BMW and M-B diesels sold here.

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Old 08-25-2016, 11:29 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by trollbait View Post
...The test cycles should be revised, but it is possible to have cars pass the current ones, and not grossly exceed limits when driven by the consumer...
If that were the case, and that was the norm rather than the exception, then that would be awesome!

Still, to get back to the intent of this specific forum, even though automotive pollution is non-trivial, it's just a tiny contributor when we look at the Big Picture of all sources of detrimental outputs.


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Old 08-25-2016, 01:06 PM   #23
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Yep, but as publicly owned property, cars are possibly one of the easiest assets to enforce taxes on. Did you know 90% of N0X emissions in London are NOT from diesel cars?

They changed the road tax rules here, previously based on a cars emissions of carbon dioxide, now the government is loosing billions in tax revenue since people switched to low carbon cars. So the government's solution? Make everyone pay a flat rate of 140, in other words, take away some incentive to buy a small effecient cars, even a hybrid, and perhaps encourage people to buy something larger than they would usually, like an SUV. Let's watch emissions rise again. Talk about backwards steps...


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