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Old 11-18-2007, 02:36 PM   #11
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DracoFelis,

www.thenhf.com/vaccinations_70.htm

www.advancedhealthplan.com/bhflushots.html

my intent is to help others educate themselves, not push a political agenda.
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www.aclj.org

i find NOTHING on this site or the radio program that supports a "shove it down throats" religious agenda. but you will find the defending of religious rights(freedoms), which the USA was founded on as you know.
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Skewbe,

you're correct. my apologies, but again, just trying to help others here.
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Old 11-19-2007, 06:07 AM   #12
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Based upon just the science I know, those two sites are full of fear, 1/2 truths, and downright falsehoods. As just one key example, there is really no way to get the flu from a KILLED virus (which is what the vast majority of flu shots are made of). Yet, both sites CLAIM that is a real danger.

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my intent is to help others educate themselves, not push a political agenda.
Really?


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Originally Posted by bowtieguy View Post
www.aclj.org

i find NOTHING on this site or the radio program that supports a "shove it down throats" religious agenda.
You are correct that they don't make a big deal of their true purpose on the web site. So what? Better advertising then they had in the past?

However, I remember how they presented themselves on some religious program (a few years back, shortly after they were founded), and it was FAR from "tolerance". They CLAIMED that their PURPOSE (emphasis mine, but that they did claim it was their purpose) was to fight the ACLU, and that was WHY THEY WERE FOUNDED! This is hardly "religious tolerance" (because true "religious tolerance" depends upon tolerance/acceptance of religions other than your own), it's religious bigotry!

NOTE: That was how the ACLJ itself was presenting itself, not how some opposition to the ACLJ was presenting itself. So either that was their true purpose (in which case they are a very scary group), or they were lying to try to bring in religious zealot.

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but you will find the defending of religious rights(freedoms), which the USA was founded on as you know.
I'm all for religious FREEDOM, in fact as a non-Christian married to a Christian it's very important to me. In fact, considering my home life, I could be considered a living example of "religious freedom"!

The problem is, some groups (including what I've seen of the ACLJ) speak loud and hard about "religious freedom", when they really only mean the freedom to think the way they think (whereas all other viewpoints should be suppressed). And despite the lip service, such an approach is the farthest thing from true "religious freedom" and "tolerance of other viewpoints", and is instead just another form of bigotry and hatred. And that's sad...
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:06 AM   #13
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You are correct that they don't make a big deal of their true purpose on the web site. So what? Better advertising then they had in the past?
Speaking of the past.... waybackmachine has archives of websites


ACLJ's website in 1997 via archive.org

or ACLJ's mission statement in 1998 via archive.org

Quote:
The American Center has a national network of attorneys who are committed to the defense of Judeo-Christian values.
That tidbit has obviously changed - as well as removing the lovely article on "Religious Cleansing in the American Republic" and the "conservative site of the day" link - yikes.

Just for fun... here's ACLU's about page in '97
http://web.archive.org/web/199706132...out/about.html

Quote:
The ACLU defends the _right_ of people to express their views, not the views that they express.
which, in my opinion, is why the ACLU gets tarnished - giving legal defense to controversial subjects isn't always the best way to make friends I can think of few people that want to get behind the KKK or NeoNazis for support - but, that doesn't change their rights.

And for a lot of fun... gassavers.org On October 18, 2005

http://web.archive.org/web/200510180...gassavers.org/
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:13 AM   #14
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via archive.org
Neat tool, I was able to visit my old school hosted website and retrieve some pictures that I thought were lost forever!
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:18 PM   #15
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Treb/Draco,

do you guys really believe it is wrong to support/defend:

1. a peaceful pro-life social attacked for disrimination of women

2. a church denied renting a public place(school)

3. students denied the right to start a Bible club on school grounds

4. Christian values(the ACLU defends the non-religious, which is fine)

these came from your(Treb) link. please tell me don't believe this type of support to be illegit.

also the ACLU is the group that openly named the ACLJ their adversary(again on the link)

come on guys, we know that the ACLU defends the non-religious. the ACLJ just levels the playing field.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:33 PM   #16
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:45 PM   #17
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I bet hisself like 'im some ice cream.
the Christian faith has much diversity(which i greatly support) and is growing w/minorities. blacks, hispanics, and others. the chinese are a huge growing of believers. this is appropriate, afterall, the first CHRISTians were jews.

i hope this was not your intended meaning, but just in case, that's where i stand.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:53 PM   #18
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I like potato chips!
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:55 PM   #19
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In either case, I'm locking this thread as it's obviously gone off topic and it's already been noted that you can opt out of the shot.
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