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Old 01-20-2008, 11:45 AM   #31
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My sincere apologies to the originator of this thread for the defacto hijack. It devolved quickly. But FE is not just for the hemp wearing crowd. SUVs serve a purpose that you may not require, but just because you don't want it doesn't mean it should be forbidden. And just because we wouldn't agree to live the lives of the others doesn't mean we can't keep Fuel Efficiency a little more the main topic.

I'd rather talk about nuts and bolts than world-view any day. Cheers.
In terms of this thread, technically, you started it. I was in 100% agreement with bzipitidoo's post, but in deference to you and others that agree with you, I didn't emphasize that part of the post in my reply. My opinion wasn't worth starting another flame war. If you search around, you will find older threads on GasSavers where this issue has been hashed out ad-infinitum. Sooooooooo, being incredulous in the context of the older threads is kind of "incredulous" to me. If you disagreed with what bzipitidoo was saying, why not start (or find) an (already existing) SUV practicality thread? You can get your opinion off your chest in a way that doesn't drag this thread down into the mud.

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Old 01-20-2008, 12:01 PM   #32
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There are advantages to both small cars and large cars coming into a potential accident situation. Generally speaking, a small car will be able to stop more quickly and manuever around a hazard. This of course is not true in all cases, but I would guess that the stopping distance from 55mph in my civic is shorter than that for a crown vic or explorer from a similar year.
If an accident occurs, you will be safer in a larger vehicle, unless you are in a truck, van, or suv, which have higher rollover rates if you swerve, have a blowout, leave the road or hit a guardrail at the wrong angle. Larger vehicles cause more damage to any object they hit, so it could possibly be considered selfish to drive one.
SUV's can be very efficient under certain (unusual) circumstances, like hauling 5-7 passengers and cargo, hauling passengers and a trailer, etc. In fact an SUV could have even have a low environmental impact if it was only used to haul full loads. If you stuff 6 people in your jeep cherokee that gets 20 mpg (ive done it), you are getting better mpg than 6 people driving solo in their vx's getting 60mpg.
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:42 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
If you disagreed with what bzipitidoo was saying, why not start (or find) an (already existing) SUV practicality thread? You can get your opinion off your chest in a way that doesn't drag this thread down into the mud.

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As I recall, I simply disagreed with a single statement in a long story. Then another member jumped on me.

But how could it possibly be bad form to disagree with something somebody says in the same thread in which it originated? That would erase quite a portion of the threads here.

Did I stumble across something allowed on the side of the Anti-SUVers and not on the other? Is s a forum for Haters of SUVs and Consumers only? My apologies, but I didn't see that sign posted anywhere.
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:01 PM   #34
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Mr Incredible -

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Originally Posted by Mr Incredible View Post
As I recall, I simply disagreed with a single statement in a long story. Then another member jumped on me.

But how could it possibly be bad form to disagree with something somebody says in the same thread in which it originated? That would erase quite a portion of the threads here.

Did I stumble across something allowed on the side of the Anti-SUVers and not on the other? Is s a forum for Haters of SUVs and Consumers only? My apologies, but I didn't see that sign posted anywhere.
I think that the Pro/Anti-SUVers are equal in blame. I have two modes. If you ask me how to improve MPG on an SUV, I will answer one way. If you ask me my opinion of SUVs, I will answer another way.

I can see your POV. Saying that you are "incredulous" isn't an attack per se, but it can be interpreted as being in poor taste when it comes to the subject matter of the thread. It can also be considered an oblique attack. It's verrrrrrrrry easy to read the tone of your comment as "Are you nuts? How can anyone think that way?!?!?!?". Do you deny that sentiment when you wrote those words?

There are certain things I don't post because I *expect* to be attacked by people that share your POV. It's a judgment call as to how much of my time I want to waste on the issue. As far as I am concerned, you can post anything you want until a moderator says stop. But don't be surprised if you in turn are called to task along the way.

But, when this stuff happens, how or even if you respond, is always your choice.

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Old 01-20-2008, 07:44 PM   #35
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cfg83, seldom do I become overemotional. I do deny saying what you may think you heard.

The more days I live the less I'm surprised by the people around me and the...variety...of opinions. I have worked my way through/around/across & back from/to many of them. I'm a hippy at heart from the 60's & 70's, but have enough experience and grounding to have largely removed my head from the clouds. I try to see both sides, but I do not subscribe to the opinion that my driving an F250 is any more dangerous than a teenager in a CRX. I believe it's more HOW you drive what you drive that it is WHAT you drive, safety-wise. Nor am I any more likely to do that thing anti-SUVers are so fond of predicting (rollovers) than many cars, since I don't do those things daily that so commonly cause rollovers to occur.

So, no, I do not agree with the mindset that I am behaving selfishly in my satisfaction of having something large around me, though I bought it to do truck things.

I rather think it may be more selfish to wish less safety on those that choose it as a way of making me feel better about my world view and that everybody is equally unsafe. Rather socialistic, I think.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:31 PM   #36
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Seems like a weird time to state that you would have killed them if you were in a SUV (just quessing at best) and infer some who drive SUVs are being selfishly safe at the expense of others. I am sorry you had an accident and if it were me I would just be grateful things were not worse. The implication that you sacrificed your own safety and the safety of your family for the sake of FE is well...just ridiculous. You drive a small FE car for just that reason...to be FE...saving fuel. I am sure that you didn't get the Geo knowing that one day you would be responsible for the non-death of people in another vehicle while you were at the wheel of your Geo. I sometimes get tired of the arrogant attitude some take to what others drive. For all you know some were given a vehicle and they are doing the best with what they have, others made a choice based on thier needs (not your needs or adjenda), for some it is a choice of do I trash a perfectly good vehicle for the sole sake of FE (that is a waste of already expended energy and resources) or for whatever reason a person purchases a vehicle. A SUV driven carefully is much less of a weapon (or tank for some) than a econo car driven like it was stolen (like a missle for others). It is all a matter of inches when you are on the road in circustances like you encountered. You seem to give more forgiveness to the drivers of the other car even tho they ran a light than SUV drivers that had nothing to do with your accident...Does that make any sense?
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:05 PM   #37
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I have already been told several times that we might have fared better had we been in a bigger vehicle. Those comments were generally delivered with an air of wondering if such a traumatic event was enough to get me to see the light and come to my senses and buy a bigger vehicle.

I have no problem with people who drive SUVs or trucks for sensible reasons. The safety angle however is totally bogus, and those who picked a large vehicle for that reason alone are only kidding themselves, and those people I do have an issue with. I certainly did not get the Metro so everyone else would be a little safer from me! In this particular case, if that made the difference between that red light runner living and dying, that's fine with me despite that he deserved to win a Darwin Award for his reckless disregard of safety during the operation of a motor vehicle. I have heard one of the job hazards of being the operator of a train is that on occasion people will commit suicide by jumping or driving on the tracks in front of an oncoming train. Even though the operators cannot possibly be at fault and no one blames them, they still feel terrible and traumatized after such an incident. Speaking selfishly, I'm relieved I don't have anyone's death, however well deserved, on my conscience.

I merely refrained from letting fears of crashes stampede me into accepting the common but incorrect wisdom and buying a large vehicle. Accidents are rare, and accidents where more size and mass mattered are only a small fraction of all accidents, and must be balanced against those accidents where the size and mass worked against the victims.

Those who get an SUV for safety reasons are bad enough. They get to see over all the little cars, but the drivers in the low cars can't see around them, how safe is that? But when the SUV owners have picked such a vehicle so they can practice their aggressive driving with greater safety to themselves, then I'm angry. And that is what so annoys us about SUVs. Just enough jerks in SUVs give the rest of the SUV drivers a bad name. They start getting pushy with the driving, cutting people off, pushing the envelope on edgy moves because their car keeps them "safer" in case something happens, and copping an attitude that little cars better get out of their way because if the little guy plays, he'll lose the game of chicken. A bit more than a year ago, while driving my Festiva, my mother was hit by just such an SUV driver. She was in the right lane on a 6 lane divided road and this SUV came up behind her, swerved left around her and then cut back in front of her a little too soon. Bumped his rear wheel off the corner of her bumper. Damage was superficial, just a few scuff marks, but the police came to do a report, and this jerk started screaming about how she might have bent the axle on his vehicle, and blaming her for the whole thing, etc. As for the mild mannered polite SUV drivers, is there a one who hasn't once yielded to the temptation to use their size to unfair advantage? Did anyone see the Tom and Ray column, just last week, about this woman who confessed that "upgrading" to an SUV turned her from a nice considerate driver into a monster? To the extent that SUVs enable and encourage such antisocial driving, we dislike them.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:53 AM   #38
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I had a big old SUV honk at me like 1/3 of a second after the light turned green the other day. I got out and went back to ask him if everything was OK, if I needed to call somebody for him, that I was concerned that he was in trouble because he had honked, etc. Kept him and his wife there for like 5 minutes LOL
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:04 PM   #39
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My turn....

Off the bat,,, sorry for the wreck. They suck big time!

But you made mistakes. NEVER EVER take your eye off the cross traffic. MPG, lights, traffic and all need to be looked after. You have control of whats in front of you. And the ablity to react to behind and side if your aware.


exactly! Anticipate that everyone will break every traffic rule. Its saved my butt numerous times. expect people to merge over when your next to them or them to merge infront of you when they enter a highway deff expect people to run stop signs or slide thru them when wet or snowy. (guilty of that luckly noone was anywhere near me )

just remember there is a time and a place for everyhting, when going thru intersections even if u have a right of way just pay attention to the road and especially if anyone looks suspecious of being a darwin contestant
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:51 AM   #40
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I had a big old SUV honk at me like 1/3 of a second after the light turned green the other day. I got out and went back to ask him if everything was OK, if I needed to call somebody for him, that I was concerned that he was in trouble because he had honked, etc. Kept him and his wife there for like 5 minutes LOL
Would have been hilarious if he was a LEO wouldn't it?

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