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Old 09-14-2009, 09:11 AM   #41
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If you ever go to a park bench and sit next to an old lady and say "tell me about your life", she'll tell you about her children.

I have one (fantastic) son, and it is impossible to describe the feeling on this side of the fence. This is one of those situations where I believe that the grass is greener on *this* side of the fence.

I know people who, thank goodness, have realized that they are not parenting material. However I feel sorry for them, but they don't know what they are missing either.

Having said that, there is probably a good reason that we've gone from procreating at 2.2 children per generation to 1.7 children per generation. (The only reason the US population is growing is due to immigration) I suspect that there are several reasons for this:
1) The need for "immediate gratification" in our culture
2) The declining level of income per worker, requireing more families with two full-time incomes
3) A lack of understanding how to raise kids- learn how to say no, DON'T run to coddle them as soon as they start crying, run the vacuum cleaner while they are sleeping, be authoritative and don't let the kids run your life, etc...
4) Seeing other parents who have no freakin clue how to raise kids (just how to make them) and generally being quite turned off by watching these brats ruin their parents lives
5) The "keep up with the Joneses" materialistic attitude in general, where someone without a 17-foot flatscreen is simply intolerable (and yes, paying for another mouth to feed will interfere with your quest for materialism)
6) The highly unstable marriage environment (i.e. so many divorces)

... and so on.

I wouldn't trade my kid for a trillion dollars and a lifetime of luxury. (But I wouldn't have said that before I had my kid either...)

On the other hand, if you choose not to have children, you won't really understand what you are missing out on.


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Old 09-14-2009, 09:28 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by theclencher View Post
0, 1, or 2. That makes for a stable if not declining population.

I can't fathom why so many "need" to have more than that.

I can assure you, they aren't doing us any favors, and they aren't as great as they think they are.

And yes it's absolutely true that the further down one is on many measures, not just the gene pool, the more they duplicate. Why do we pay for that? It is the very definition of insanity.
My wife wanted a 3rd one, I put an end to that. I have two daughters now aged 2 and 4. I try hard everyday to raise them right, with manners, intellect and intelligence.

But I do agree with Clencher that today's youth is a waste of space. I work at an elementary school and it's amazing the amount of kids that have that nasty teenager attitude already, it's disgusting. It can be blamed on parents not taking responsibility and being a parent. that is what drives me to help my kids to be way more than what the youth of today is. It hurts me inside very much when I see my wife cave in and start giving the kids what they want, just because she is tired. I've had to tell her to be the parent and not a victim several times and remind her that we don't want to have snotty little brats for kids when we are older.

It's a lot of work, but if you do your best then that is all that can be asked. A person will always have doubt or questions about if they want to be a parent or not, that's normal. If you have no doubts and think that you could be a great parent, then I think there is something wrong with that person.

I have a friend that is in the exact opposite of your situation, HolyCow. He wants kids and she doesn't, and she waited until after they were married to let him know that. I often have my kids come and hang out with him, because he would make a good Dad and he appreciates me doing that for him. but his replacement for kids are three cats. It's a good replacement in my eyes, but not nearly the same as having a kid.

In the end it just comes down to you, I guess.


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Old 09-14-2009, 09:44 AM   #43
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I was at a public computer the other day. A woman was at another station and her wild a$$ freeking spawn was tearing up the place. She'd say "Jack, don't do that. Jack, stop it. Jack, stop it now. Jack, off. etc., etc., etc." in a calm barely audible voice. Of course the brat didn't even skip a beat.

It was either laugh at her or start smacking heads together... so I laughed at her.

Sorry *** excuse for a parent. She's in the majority the way it looks.
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by theclencher View Post
It was either laugh at her or start smacking heads together... so I laughed at her.

Sorry *** excuse for a parent. She's in the majority the way it looks.
She is the majority. I knew a girl back in Texas whose mom taught kindergarten and she had this one little **** that I personally would have wanted to slap across the room, but she couldn't even touch the kid as per Corpus Christi ISD rules. He would knock over bookshelves and everything. They had a parent teacher conference and when discipline came up the mom said "it's just easier to let him do what he wants". I was floored. She was a single mom that had the kid at 13. Can't expect much from her I guess but still.

I don't understand why that isn't considered child abuse.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:15 AM   #45
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how old are you and the wife? the reason I as is maybe time is something that you should use too. maybe take some time on this decision.

you did say earlier that you were getting older but you never said how old you were. I'm 30 and the wife the same. my biggest concern is being 60ish when she is done with school (college and what not)
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:40 AM   #46
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Same age as you. It definitely takes time. I've been thinking about it on my own, trying to find what I'm looking for for a few months.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:45 PM   #47
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allow me to correct myself. I would be 50ish....not 60ish.

I had no problem with children but a big problem with adoption. I actually went to a class on foster parenting to see how it would go. it took me about 5 years to be alright with adoption. at the same time, I was cool with kids to begin with.

I won't say I regret it but I will say that it is a huge lifestyle change. I don't do hardly anything the way I used to. I do enjoy the little things though. the smiles and the little laugh that she has. she isn't talking yet so that will be something to look forward to.

it is a big decision and at least you recognize that. many people think that raising kids is so easy. those are the ones that really have a time and end up letting them run the roost.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:58 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by BEEF View Post
it is a big decision and at least you recognize that. many people think that raising kids is so easy.
I second that! Kudos.

Main Entry: co de pen dence - see codependency
co de pen den cy
Pronunciation: \kō-di-ˈpen-dən(t)-sē\
Function: noun
Date: 1979

: a psychological condition or a relationship in which a person is controlled or manipulated by another who is affected with a pathological condition (as an addiction to alcohol or heroin) ; broadly : dependence on the needs of or control by another
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:52 PM   #49
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Once you have the kids you will be to tired to regret it.

My kids just turned two and five on the 26th. Since the kids I've never been so tired or had so much fun in my life.

Good luck with your decision

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Old 09-15-2009, 09:11 PM   #50
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Were 45

My other half and I have been together 8 years, both of us have had 3 major careers and were both on our 4th. All the time spent in college and being in positions where I knew I could have never been home or had the time to be the father I wanted to be had me make the choice of not having kids. My other half is very environmentally contious, her choice was by number, she believes with the ever increasing world population, there is no need for her to have children.

Is there a want? In my 20's I wanted kids, in my 30's every girl I meet had her clock ticking and looked at me as breeding stock. Out of 21 of my close childhood and high school friends, 20 of them are divorced. they have between 1 to 4 kids and are on 1 to 4 marriages. In my row housed heighborhood, every morning 5 mini vans pull up and load up the kids, those 5 parents are divoced or sepparated and the kids are traded from school to visitation.

I had a great childhood, strict, but fantastic and loving parents, I would have raised my kids in the same manor. I have talked to many people of the want to pass the family name, Im just not obsessed with that. I have had 2 long term, close to marriage relationships, they would have ended in divorce as we got older, our wants and needs changed, we grew apart and Im glad I didn't marry those 2 girls.

My other half of 8 years is just the best, were on the same page, have so many of the same interests, she is the best, and we have talked many times during our relationship about kids and we agreed to have none.

One thing I tried was going to school to become a teacher, I figured if I can't have kids of my own, I'd inspire a generation. 10 years ago there were 1500 layoffs, now nationally 26,000 teachers have been layed off, so that ended that career.

The rest of our families are loaded with kids, one phone call and I can have my house loaded with relatives children. Will your wife be o.k. with a life without children, dont let it be this haunting thing forever hanging in the back of the relationship. I think now, in this time that the choice of not having children or having them is not the end all.

When I moved out to the East Coast, all the neighbors were shocked we didn't have children, they asked the usual questions: Are you sterile. Do you hate kids? Why dont you adopt? So to keep the peace in the neighborhood, I informed them, we just didn't have the time.

At 45, I would be 65 when the kid was 20 and 75 at 30, not to mention the health concerns. Women are now advised not to have children over 35 years old. The massive hormonal changes put women who have kids late at a higher cancer risk. At 45 I cant deal with the sleepless nights having to care for a new born, the 2's and 3's, I dont have the energy to chase after children.

My hats off to people who have children, their great and we have to pass on the information from our past. I think in these modern times that we can make the choice of have or not have. I understand your inner feelings of not having the Daddy Drive, the older you get, the less Daddy Drive you have, I enjoy the peace.

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