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Old 05-10-2010, 07:39 AM   #11
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There are far fewer EE design engineers coming out of college than there are teachers. Engineering degrees take the same quantity of years but more work than any other degree...and the more work is also more difficult. Few people want to try, and fewer people succeed.

It is much easier to become a teacher than to become an EE and there are usually a lot more teachers looking for work. That explains the supply & demand economics involved in comparing EE salary to teaching salary. Also, EE's are generally producing profit, which makes it much easier to pay them well.

I agree that many modern teachers are probably in it for the stability.

I also agree that the issue of whether they can live off the money is not relevant...we could raise that issue regarding every job, but that's getting dangerously close to communism with the lack of incentive to try harder or do anything worthwhile. Why bother doing something more difficult, annoying, or risky for the same money?

When looking at teachers' compensation, it also behooves us to consider how much work they're doing. During the school year they work a LOT of hours off the clock; but on the other hand they have way more vacation than other professions have.

It's too bad we can't compensate the truly caring, hard-working, good teachers well while shortchanging the crappy, lazy, and apathetic ones.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:05 AM   #12
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maybe I don't think of the EE as that different because I work around them all day.

actually, between my last post and reading yours, several people where I work pointed out that there are so many people going to school to be teachers.

I think you said it best with your last statement

It's too bad we can't compensate the truly caring, hard-working, good teachers well while shortchanging the crappy, lazy, and apathetic ones.

the sad part is that the pay scale that they use currently is based on years and nothing more. the incentive to work harder goes out the window when it is no longer about the kids.


***edit***

one other thing though is that I foucused on EEs because that is what I am around right now(literally) but I have two sisters. one is an RN the other a dental hygenist. both 2 year degrees, both starting much higher than a beginner teacher salary. my brother-in-law is a construction project manager. that is a 4 year degree but 2X the starting teacher salary. another one of my brother's-in-law is a beer delivery guy with no education past highschool (though he does have a CDL) and makes more than a starting teacher, though marginally so.

I've always heard that if you are going to be a teacher, don't do it for the money
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:30 PM   #13
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I agree that most teachers are there for nothing more than a paycheck. My son has a mild learning disability and is supposed to get modified assignments and classroom assistance. Two years ago one of his teachers wasn't giving him the modifications and assistance he was entitled to by federal law (IDEA), which in turn caused him to fail one of his classes. I filed complaints on the state and federal level and they sided with teacher saying we didn't have any proof. They asked if we had witnesses and I told them there were approximately 30 other students in the class that could verify it. Their response was other students couldn't be witnesses. If there's no one other than the teacher and students in the classroom how can you prove something if the teacher denies the allegations? My youngest son is graduating high school this year and I'm very happy we won't be having to deal with the public school systems any longer. If I'd had the education to do it I'd have pulled him out of public schools years ago and home schooled him. Even with only a 12th grade education I think I could have taught him more than he learned in the public school system.
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:25 PM   #14
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(just to set the record straight, my previos post wasn't directed towards bowtieguy but more a general rant)
and i didn't take in personally. even if at some point we do have differing opinions, no worries, you're my brother!
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:33 PM   #15
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Fordman, i'm w/ ya. i believe that if more people could/would be able to get by on one income(not to mention avoid using public school as free baby sitting), there would be a mass exodus to home schooling. this likely would benefit the public schools by forcing them to compete.

to be fair, in regard to the "stability" factor, the same could be said of MANY govt jobs. when i worked for govt, there were guys, again, just collecting a paycheck and waiting on that pension. fact of life i suppose--just less frequent in the private sector!
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:14 PM   #16
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I disagree that many people would switch to home schooling. Most would not want to, and are not equipped to do so.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:52 PM   #17
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<snip>
BTW, i just checked my local teachers pay scale...$32k to start, 44k avg, and 62.5k high end. i stand by my statement that they're not under paid. i could live on that.
If you can live on 32k/year (especially if you are married and the only income in the family) then my hat's off to you!

Parents need to be involved with their children's education. It's not the teacher's job alone, nor should it be. I don't think it requires pulling children out of school and completely homeschooling them, but education is a joint effort. (Easy for me to say...I never had any kids)

My only experience with people who home-school their kids are people who hold certain beliefs about the age of the Earth, and the origin of the species, which tend to conflict with the results of centuries of scientific research. This may not reflect the majority of those who home-school their kids, just my experience.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:20 PM   #18
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my biggest issue with home schooling is the social interactions (or lack there of). the seclusion of the children and not knowing how to interact with society.

ironically enough, one of the most mature young adults I have ever known was home schooled. in my opinion, he was the exception to the rule. his father runs a roofing business and he dated my sister-in-law for a while. he was 14 at the time.

another issue I have is qualifications. it is one thing to learn advanced math, literature, scinece, history...but to be able to teach it. I know I couldn't teach someone calculus (though I use it daily).

I have come to the realization that home school vs public school vs private school is more of a personal choice. some are more inclined one way or another by health reasons, social reasons, financial reasons and even religious reasons.

a buddy of mine worked at sheetz (a gas station chain) making under $15,000 a year. he lived on his own and didn't make enough to qualify for a credit card. it took him a few years but he saved enough to purchase a mustang GT. not new but he dropped about 8k on it and still had a buffer in the bank as well. he did live on hot dogs and ramen noodles.

***edit***

I found this article today and it fits perfectly. it is the worst paying degrees. education came in at #7 and #2. it is at least an interesting read

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-arti...e_degrees-1263
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:09 AM   #19
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yea i know a few home schooled people my age and either thier kinda shy/dont say much or thier extremely outgoing and talk to everyone about pretty much anything lol.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:58 AM   #20
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When looking at teachers' compensation, it also behooves us to consider how much work they're doing. During the school year they work a LOT of hours off the clock; but on the other hand they have way more vacation than other professions have.
Then there is the out of pocket expenses. In lean times, education tends to be the first to get cut, leaving teachers to buy their own classroom supplies.
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