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Old 09-04-2007, 10:53 AM   #21
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I dont understand why everything is so extreme now days. Its insane!!!

Take my party. the RipOff Reps. As far as they are concerned. There is no issue. Drill and drive SUV's. Tap Tap Tap

The Dumb-O-Crats on the other hand want to preach the sky is falling and we are all going to die! Give us your money. I did not have sex!

And then there are us types that see,, yeah,, there might be a issue. Let me save some gas. Think about this a little. Better to air on the side of caution. And we get lam bashed. Get torn a part by the I want to save the world do gooders. And then damn near ran over by the SUV driving idiots.

There is no middle ground in our country anymore. And if your not on the extreme end of something you are the enemy! It doesn't matter if it global warming, abortion, tax, speed limits or sex positions.

Its got to the point that its imbarrasing.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:00 AM   #22
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Then there are those of us who think that there is nothing but apathetic middle-ground, with neither side really doing anything but talking about what they think is good.

At least as far as this discussion is concerned, it seems to hinge completely on point of view. So, that considered, let's not lose our heads.

*hugs* for everyone.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:25 AM   #23
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with neither side really doing anything but talking about what they think is good.
When the internet is involved, we can expect nothing less than that. With one exception -- when you're showing what good you've already done with reasonable explanation of why it is/was good and how it can be repeated by peers (bonus points for empirical data).

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There is no middle ground in our country anymore. And if your not on the extreme end of something you are the enemy! It doesn't matter if it global warming, abortion, tax, speed limits or sex positions.
What I find amusing is that, somehow, we thing there's only two ends. I think that's what we're taught in school though - "Listen to the other side" - "what's the other story" - "What's the other point of view" - etc. That, as opposed to "find another point of view" - I, for one, would be joining this party if I were a citizen of Sweden (or when it's easily available in the US)...
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:12 PM   #24
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When the internet is involved, we can expect nothing less than that. With one exception -- when you're showing what good you've already done with reasonable explanation of why it is/was good and how it can be repeated by peers (bonus points for empirical data).
Indeed, I just rode to the library on my bike! *showsoff*

But really, even in life I feel the same. Most of the time it is my own lack of commitment that worries me though. Not that I don't care, but that I grew up in the US "do nothing because you can't do anything" mentality.

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What I find amusing is that, somehow, we thing there's only two ends. I think that's what we're taught in school though - "Listen to the other side" - "what's the other story" - "What's the other point of view" - etc. That, as opposed to "find another point of view" - I, for one, would be joining this party if I were a citizen of Sweden (or when it's easily available in the US)...
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I am actually one of the few who things there is only a middle ground. We may talk big with labels and things and all that, but really there aren't so many real outliers. We can talk about gay rights and things but how many of us are going to be gung ho about it but the gays? And even then, how many gay people would even be there marching or calling or petitioning?

My US history teacher in high school would always draw a political graph and show us how policies keep getting more centric. Of course, things are changing, more things are the norm now. While it is certainly more liberal than it used to be, there are less outliers from the status quo.

Ramble ramble ramble.
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:13 PM   #25
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I actually don't have my head in the sand here skewbe. I simply don't see enough evidence to convince me that man is the be all and end all of global warming. I could be convinced, but it's going to take more than some scientists telling me that it's true because they say so, give me money please.

No use in me continuing to post on this though. You are of the opinion that I must either agree with you or have something wrong with me. It doesn't seem to matter to you that we have the same end goals, it only seems to matter to you on what my motivation is. Since you feel I have nothing to contribute unless I am also worshipping your god Gore, then don't read my posts. Since it's your way or the highway, I think I'll hit the road.

You can't argue with a zealot, and that's exactly what skewbe is. Luckily he has no way of actually finding me, otherwise I'd have to worry about being beheaded.
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:03 PM   #26
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Oh, well, from the be all and end all standpoint, of course man isn't solely responsible for GW. If the sun would just decrease the energy transmitted to us proportionally to the extra amount we're trapping, there would be no problem. Why don't you head over to the center of the solar system and have a talk with 'em? Or, if you wanna stay local, reduce the amount of water on the Earth. Just chuck it out of the atmosphere little by little.
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:40 PM   #27
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Indeed, I just rode to the library on my bike! *showsoff*

But really, even in life I feel the same. Most of the time it is my own lack of commitment that worries me though. Not that I don't care, but that I grew up in the US "do nothing because you can't do anything" mentality.

Ha! I just got back from the bank... VIA bike (something I don't normally do) Mostly because I only have 1.3 gallons of fuel left in my tank - and a little more than another week before I can refuel to hit my target consumption goal

I'm trying to think -- how long has it been since a novel, non trivial, non war related achievement has come from the US? I mean things like a polio vaccine, first shuttle launch, etc.... A portion of one of my lectures today was on quality control - because Japan is beating us into the ground.

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We can talk about gay rights and things but how many of us are going to be gung ho about it but the gays? And even then, how many gay people would even be there marching or calling or petitioning?
I was all ready to go the gay pride/rights parade in San Francisco (the parade). But an unfortunate time miscalculation and bad information (both my fault) prevented it :/ Perhaps we've just opened a new can of worms... But really, it's not about gay rights -- it's equal rights. And as most of the world knows, America is pretty slow when it comes to equal rights for targeted groups.

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My US history teacher in high school would always draw a political graph and show us how policies keep getting more centric. Of course, things are changing, more things are the norm now. While it is certainly more liberal than it used to be, there are less outliers from the status quo.
It has always been my opinion that the "center" is a fluid "thing" -- that is, it changes with what is considered the social normal. You can go back in history and find all sorts of crazy laws by todays standards - but they were completely normal then, centered

The problem is.... You don't hear the center very frequently as they're too busy to be bothered by this crap. I myself am moderate, I clash with both sides and have yet to vote a straight ticket. Heh, voting is more than some can say for my age group.
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:48 PM   #28
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considering the alternative viewpoint

I wonder if folks ever considered that these 2500 scientists might be doing it for altruistic reasons?

Doing it for money was always a stretch, but if one cannot even comprehend altruism as a motive then they may be led to such a conclusion, and they have my pity, like it or not.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:10 PM   #29
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Ha! I just got back from the bank... VIA bike (something I don't normally do) Mostly because I only have 1.3 gallons of fuel left in my tank - and a little more than another week before I can refuel to hit my target consumption goal
Very nice! What's the goal?

Quote:
I'm trying to think -- how long has it been since a novel, non trivial, non war related achievement has come from the US? I mean things like a polio vaccine, first shuttle launch, etc.... A portion of one of my lectures today was on quality control - because Japan is beating us into the ground.
That's an interesting question. I'm not old enough to really know the answer, though. I will ponder though.

But you can't really blame japan, they're just better at things! Well, actually, it's prolly just that they try harder.

[quote]
I was all ready to go the gay pride/rights parade in San Francisco (the parade). But an unfortunate time miscalculation and bad information (both my fault) prevented it :/ Perhaps we've just opened a new can of worms... But really, it's not about gay rights -- it's equal rights. And as most of the world knows, America is pretty slow when it comes to equal rights for targeted groups.
[\quote]

Indeed, that's the idea I have trouble communicating to people. Especially at Dartmouth, it's always about "we pay too much attention to minorities" blah blah blah, and never about, "we should pay attention to the whole."

Quote:
It has always been my opinion that the "center" is a fluid "thing" -- that is, it changes with what is considered the social normal. You can go back in history and find all sorts of crazy laws by todays standards - but they were completely normal then, centered

The problem is.... You don't hear the center very frequently as they're too busy to be bothered by this crap. I myself am moderate, I clash with both sides and have yet to vote a straight ticket. Heh, voting is more than some can say for my age group.
Indeed. Well, voting is fun. I've only had one chance and I voted a straight ticket because there were no independents with real ideas. It was either the pothead democrats who are dartmouth alums or the pothead libertarian fake republicans who are dartmouth alums. Silly NH politics.

*sigh* I need some ice cream.
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:29 PM   #30
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A parody on ‘The Science of Deception’, kinda hits home.
http://www.thepoorman.net/tcs_parody...ressivism.html
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