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Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

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Old 05-24-2010, 12:23 PM   #21
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IMHO- On modern cars, the battery would likely not be charged with the key in any position except run (maybe start) because the alternator field windings need to be energized (receive 12 volts) in order for it to produce any electricity.

If it was an aftermarket "one wire" alternator, then you re probably correct- it would likely still be charging the battery with the engine turning and the key off.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:15 AM   #22
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I gotta voice my concern about the over-electronicization of some modern cars. In the "good ol' days" I used to be able to shut off the key, and it shut off the motor. Now, the key is merely a digital input to a computer which makes a decision about whether to kill the engine. (That is, if there is even a key any more - some cars have the "proximity" keys which are even more disconnected).

Not to mention that on many cars the ignition key doesn't control the starter motor- again, the "start" position is only connected to a computer which makes a decision about running the starter motor.

I know that in industrial control systems, this type of control logic would be prohibited by OSHA/NFPA. Even if you have all high-tech fiber optic connections around a machine, the Emergency Stop buttons have to be hard wired (independently) directly back to the control system where it cuts off the devices - not controlled through PLC logic or anything. (The PLC will be aware of the E-stop after the fact, but does not control it.)

Give me a good old-fashioned hard wired ignition key, please!

[/crotchety old windbag]

-BC
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fowljesse View Post
didn't know to shut off the car. It seems like that should be in Cop driving 101.
I agree with the rest of your post, but there is a valid reason why he may not know how to shut that vehicle off in an emergency situation. Let me list the factors that led up to it:
1. It's a rental vehicle.
2. There's no key.
3. The "start" button doesn't operate the same way when your throttle is stuck open as it does when you're idling. So, you try to shut it off the way you always do and it doesn't respond.
4. In a panic, with everything happening really fast, who's going to unintuitively try holding the button for 3 or more seconds while dodging trees and motorcycles? Those 3 seconds would feel like an eternity. I'll tell you who: Computer nerds and nobody else.

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Originally Posted by JanGeo View Post
Can anyone think of any reason why keeping the engine in gear and turning off the ignition would be a problem. It would probably keep the engine turning over and charging the battery and providing vacuum for the brakes as well as power steering if belt driven from the engine and also provide engine braking.
It's no problem. Everyone should try it at least once to make sure they know to do it in their vehicle and know how driving in that condition feels.
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Old 05-27-2010, 07:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobc455 View Post
I gotta voice my concern about the over-electronicization of some modern cars. In the "good ol' days" I used to be able to shut off the key, and it shut off the motor. Now, the key is merely a digital input to a computer which makes a decision about whether to kill the engine. (That is, if there is even a key any more - some cars have the "proximity" keys which are even more disconnected).

Not to mention that on many cars the ignition key doesn't control the starter motor- again, the "start" position is only connected to a computer which makes a decision about running the starter motor.

I know that in industrial control systems, this type of control logic would be prohibited by OSHA/NFPA. Even if you have all high-tech fiber optic connections around a machine, the Emergency Stop buttons have to be hard wired (independently) directly back to the control system where it cuts off the devices - not controlled through PLC logic or anything. (The PLC will be aware of the E-stop after the fact, but does not control it.)

Give me a good old-fashioned hard wired ignition key, please!

[/crotchety old windbag]

-BC
I second that.

I don't mind using electronics to control a vehicle, I just want either some sort of redundant system, or a way to safely get off the road if something fails.

My big fear is not what happens to drive-by-wire cars when they are new, but when they are 20-year-old jalopies being driven by some 16 year old...
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:57 AM   #25
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Sounds like a Fuel cutoff switch is going to work just fine in all these situations since the computer can keep on running doing it's thing and all systems can function normally except the fuel system will depresurize - also great for an anti theft kill switch. Of course it will probably throw a cell code or two.

I will say that it bugs me when I am in gear going down a hill with no gas pedal and turn on the AC and the car engine brakes LESS and feels like it is accelerating.
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Old 05-28-2010, 03:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanGeo View Post
I will say that it bugs me when I am in gear going down a hill with no gas pedal and turn on the AC and the car engine brakes LESS and feels like it is accelerating.
I at least don't have that problem. DFCO becomes more aggressive and dependable in the VW when the AC is on. Then again, I haven't tried turning AC on while I'm already DFCOing.
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