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Old 01-10-2008, 08:40 AM   #1
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Water for Gas Systems?

Any body heard of this? It is a system that uses distilled water, baking soda and electric current from cars battery to create HHO (Hydrogen Oxide) gas to mix with the gasoline. It is supposed to increase gas milage by 20 - 300%. clean the engine and make it run smoother.

Is this bullcookies or what?

Has anyone here installed one into their car?

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Old 01-10-2008, 08:53 AM   #2
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These sound interesting and have been around for a while. Apparently they are somewhat tricky to tune correctly, and are maintenance intensive.

I have yet to see someone here independently test these and provide a real life experiece with it. The principle is that the energy used to crack the H2o into it's Hydrogen and Oxygen is more than offset in it's ability to burn more of the gasoline in the engine. Sorta like propane injection in a diesel causes more complete combustion of the diesel.

Please accurately test this and report back to us. Several people have asked this same question.

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Old 01-16-2008, 10:09 PM   #3
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Check The United States Patent and Trademark Office.
You can copy anyones patent as long as it not sold, you can use any one trademark as long as it not sold, Good luck.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:15 PM   #4
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I have not yet heard of a system like this that doesn't use more energy then it produces, anyone have solid testing to prove me wrong?
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:31 AM   #5
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This is great, I am looking at the system...Anyone else http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ryland View Post
I have not yet heard of a system like this that doesn't use more energy then it produces, anyone have solid testing to prove me wrong?
I dont believe you burn nothing but water because what you say and Newton's law of physics is true.

How the hydrogen works is somewhat like boosting the octane to the fuel. Essentially you feed a small amount of hydrogen and pure O1 into the air intake of the engine and it turns out hydrogen ignites "faster" then gasoline and therefore will help burn the fuel more thoroughly before being exhausted.

The HHO gas mix into the air intake makes more of a difference with diesel then with gasoline since diesel is very inefficient (ever see the black smoke coming out of a truck or bus's exhaust?).

I suspect with gasoline, since gas is so much more efficient at burning then diesel, that the HH2 for gasoline makes more of a difference in emmissions then it does in mileage. Many trucks use the HHO now to not only lower emmissions but these trucks get more like 8 mpg with HHO intake rather then 5 mpg... these claims of 15 to 107% improvements in mileage dont seem very realistic since gasoline is already almost thoroughly burned in existing gasoline engines. More then anything else I would presume the best effect is you get a 93 octane performance with 87 octane gas.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jim Jackson View Post

Is this bullcookies or what?

Has anyone here installed one into their car?
Well Jim I just wanted to reply based on the fact that you stated the term "Bullcookies..." That's something I'll remember...

I'm working on my own HHO system right now. I have a few pieces of the puzzle in place. Just have to do the final install now. I truly believe my mileage will increase, but I don't know how long it will be until I recuperate my spendings on building the system...
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:20 PM   #8
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It's potentially possible that extra hydrogen availability in a hot engine works to crack long chain hydrocarbons into lighter fractions, allowing cleaner more complete combustion. Achieving this reliably is somewhat troublesome. On older cars that run the alternator 100% all the time, you are essentially using wasted energy to generate a fuel that the motor can burn, just from that angle, you may see 5% gain. However on cars that modulate the alternator field according to load, you are not saving anything there.

Another potential benefit is that steam may be a better working fluid than CO2 and nitrogen, and by displacing more of those gases as a proportion in the combustion products, a stronger impulse is transmitted to the piston, through stronger thermal expansion. This is more likely to be of benefit in longer stroke engines and engines with delayed intake closing (think Atkinson cycle). This benefit may be capable of being realised with a simpler water injection system.

So maybe on the perfect vehicle for it, long stroke, late closing, alternator always running, the gains may be quite impressive. However on the flip side, vehicles with shorter strokes, earlier intake closing, and ECU modulated alternators, you may see nothing at all, or maybe worse MPG

Things that may enhance the effectiveness of this are fuel heat, engine metallurgical content, and mounting of the cell. Greater fuel heat may encourage fuel cracking by the excess hydrogen, this might be added heat, or built in, for example, some V6s have the fuel rail cooking nicely between the cylinder banks. Some metals are thought to catalyze hydrogen and steam cracking reactions, aluminum, nickel, platinum... however, alloy heads may be sufficiently oxidised not to provide a catalytic surface, and the area of nickel or platinum exposed on a spark plug is rather limited. Mounting of the cell may be a factor in efficiency also because vibration will dislodge gas bubbles more readily, allowing faster gas production, ergo mounting the cell to the body might not be as effective as mounting it to the motor somewhere.

As for electrolytes, one I think has intriguing possibilities is phosphoric acid, due to it's abilities at liberating and transporting hydrogen in fuel cells. Try flat coke (diet preferable I think, avoids the sugar making a sticky mess) or squirt some "naval jelly" rust killer in your solution.

Another factoid for anyone hoping to get over unity gain out of it (one can always hope) is that those cold fusion guys were using rainwater which is reputed to have had a high degree of boron in it... which is a neutron moderator, so it either improved the chemical efficiency of the cell beyond expectations, or it was moderating fast neutrons enough to allow a sustained fusion reaction.... (Not really wanting to start a debate on that in this thread, but thought it was very interesting that no-one seeking to replicate the results appeared to be using boron "contaminated" heavy water.) Who knows, maybe boron containing rainwater makes a hyperefficient electrolyte, just some fuel for the avid experimenter there.

I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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