Where's the commuter cars?

[rainman1882]

People need to be allowed to make their own decisions and unfortunately the media and entertainment industries make most of those choices. I have been an economy proponent since I got my license. That said I have three pickups and two small cars. The pickups are used for their varied tasks and the little cars are the main drivers.

If we can get people to realize that it's just so stupid to waste resources then the problem will take care of itself. Hard to do though. Thoughts of the government imposing taxes and controling things is scary to me. What works in New York City sure won't work for me in the high northern plains. The govt. will manage to mess up what ever it would get involved in.

Something I've thought of getting is the little Kei Pickups, they are street legal here. 4x4 with 40-50 mpg, that's progress.

[theholycow]

Wow, old thread bump.

On the insurance issue: Liability and uninsured motorist insurance should be by driver, so I only have to buy one liability policy to drive as many cars as I want. I can't drive two at the same time, why do I pay liability on two? There could be a supplemental policy as part of comprehensive that allows the occasional uninsured driver to drive it.

Now, speaking of insurnace, if the insurance company thinks it's a "two-seater" sports car then insurance will be expensive, so most cars that are meant for two have a small backseat also. If they make a small two-person car that's easy to convince the insurance company is not a sports car, it has to look so ugly that nobody will buy it.

My VW Rabbit is a two-person commute car as I describe above, except instead of a small back seat, it has a tiny cargo area. To carry a medium load of groceries or a common piece of luggage, I have to fold down my back seats. I can't imagine how tiny the back seats and/or cargo areas are in smaller cars than the Rabbit, of which there are quite a few.

Granted, I do have high standards; I tend to shop a lot at once, and commonly have to cart around lots of stuff.

Yaris, Fit, Aveo, possibly Accent, maybe xA, and probably some other models are smaller than my VW. I know the OP was asking for smaller cars than those, but those are already sufficiently small -- they're just heavy, more amply powered, and not as efficient as a car that size could be.

[Mike T]

Originally Posted by Canuck

You mean like these http://www.thesmart.ca/index.cfm?ID=4720
Problem is, they are too expensive in North America. In Canada, they start at $16,700. I can get a Yaris for less than $14,000. Why would I buy a 2 seater?

The diesel came with $2000 cash back from PM Stephen Harper, as opposed to one grand back from the Toyota. So the true difference was $1700. For the diesel engine alone, it was worth it. My overall city/highway average lifetime fuel economy (3.5 years and 94,000 km) is 3.9 L/100 km (60.2 US MPG), numbers that a Yaris can only dream of, even in pure highway driving. Plus my car has a convertible top (ohhhh yeahhh baby) and an ESP system, not to mention sidebags, which can't be had in the CDN Yaris.

Those who compare the smart to econoboxes don't "get" the real differences. And that's OK by me; McDonalds sells 1000 times as much "food" as all gourmet restaurants in the world put together

Anyway, my car is the ideal commuting vehicle: easy 70 MPG (US) on the highway, super-comfortable heated seats, convertible top for pleasure.

Order a Yaris with convertible, heated seats, heated/electric mirrors, paddle shifters on the steering wheel, leather seats, leather steering wheel and leather shifter knob, high-end shound system with subwoofer and see what the dealer tells you.

The new smart is nice too, but its fuel economy advantage over the stripper econobox pretenders is slim. Still it should be possible to get decent FE with the gas version. Many US owners I know of are averaging in the mid-40 MPG US range even with that car.

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by Bill in Houston

Like a Civic, Corolla, Cobalt, Malibu, Sebring, Focus, Fit, Elantra, Spectra, 3, Lancer, Sentra, Versa, Mini, Ion, Impreza, Aerio, Jetta, Rabbit, Yaris, or S40?

Most of those are 5 seaters....

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by rainman1882

People need to be allowed to make their own decisions and unfortunately the media and entertainment industries make most of those choices. I have been an economy proponent since I got my license. That said I have three pickups and two small cars. The pickups are used for their varied tasks and the little cars are the main drivers.

If we can get people to realize that it's just so stupid to waste resources then the problem will take care of itself. Hard to do though. Thoughts of the government imposing taxes and controling things is scary to me. What works in New York City sure won't work for me in the high northern plains. The govt. will manage to mess up what ever it would get involved in.

Something I've thought of getting is the little Kei Pickups, they are street legal here. 4x4 with 40-50 mpg, that's progress.

You own "three pickups and two small cars", then you say "....it's just so stupid to waste resources ...".

Wow!

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by Mike T

The diesel came with $2000 cash back from PM Stephen Harper, as opposed to one grand back from the Toyota. So the true difference was $1700. For the diesel engine alone, it was worth it. My overall city/highway average lifetime fuel economy (3.5 years and 94,000 km) is 3.9 L/100 km (60.2 US MPG), numbers that a Yaris can only dream of, even in pure highway driving. Plus my car has a convertible top (ohhhh yeahhh baby) and an ESP system, not to mention sidebags, which can't be had in the CDN Yaris.

Those who compare the smart to econoboxes don't "get" the real differences. And that's OK by me; McDonalds sells 1000 times as much "food" as all gourmet restaurants in the world put together

Anyway, my car is the ideal commuting vehicle: easy 70 MPG (US) on the highway, super-comfortable heated seats, convertible top for pleasure.

Order a Yaris with convertible, heated seats, heated/electric mirrors, paddle shifters on the steering wheel, leather seats, leather steering wheel and leather shifter knob, high-end shound system with subwoofer and see what the dealer tells you.

The new smart is nice too, but its fuel economy advantage over the stripper econobox pretenders is slim. Still it should be possible to get decent FE with the gas version. Many US owners I know of are averaging in the mid-40 MPG US range even with that car.

...and what did you pay for the Cabriolet?

[itjstagame]

It IS very annoying that insurance companies like to charge you per vehicle, they also (at least State Farm) decide that you're a good driver PER vehicle. I always have to scream at their faces and ask how I can be accident free for 10 years but if I get a new car that will have a 30% surcharge because it's NOT accident free.

Anyway, even with that it shouldn't be too expensive to insure a second vehicle, most companies give slight discounts for it and all companies I know of will give you a discount if you drive less per year. So for instance my Truck was my sole car, rated as a commuter vehicle at 20k miles/year, when I added the Festiva I made it 15k /year and switch the truck to 10k/year. That with a 10% discount for multiple cars and because they always rate my older/second vehicles as if I'm like 35 or 40 y/o adding the second vehicle only increased my yearly insurance costs by 30% or so (note that's only $200/year). They all have 300k/125k/60k or whatever numbers the insurance lady suggested and towing insurance for when one of the 20 y/o cars breaks down.

Anyway as for the topic at hand. I hate the tall boxiness of the Aveo and similar cars, but they seem to be about what you're looking for, an absurdly small truck space, but just fold down the rear seats. Then you have a 2 seater with ample cargo or 4 people with less cargo. Granted I understand you don't even need that much cargo either for commuting but how much smaller can you really go and still justify the costs of another car? Honestly if you want to go to the extreme you should just get a motorcycle. That's got the smallest amount of cargo and passenger area you could hope for and they're only ~$6k new for all you'd ever need. I saw a lot of enclosed scooters in Germany, if rain is your worry, looking online now they're impossible to find on the US google... but here's some similar ideas: http://www.gizmag.com/go/1952/ http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/486/
Ah found it using google.de http://www.flickr.com/photos/7327643...7594399092154/ I saw lots of those.

[Mike T]

Originally Posted by MorningGaser

...and what did you pay for the Cabriolet?

It was about $16K US at the time (2005 exchange rate), full load.

[Z man]

The really smart people get a pickup and raise it 4 feet off the ground so
they can't tow anything anymore or even drive a lawnmower into the bed.
Then they get smokestacks and burn more gas showing off in the parking lot then I use to get home!

Best commuter, CRX!

[Minicity]

Back to commuter cars. If someone made a modern version of, say the KR200, that had three wheels and registered as a motorcycle, had a built in roll cage, heat, roll down windows, etc, and could sell in the $5000 range, would there be any interest in it?