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Old 11-13-2012, 01:14 AM   #1
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Thumbs down HHO & Vehicle Acceleration

Greetings,
I have a 1985 Chevy Suburban 454 with a carburetor, Not Requiring & Without Computer, O2 sensors, EFIE, Catalytic converter.

Is the following a correct understanding of HHO fuel production?
In an unmodified vehicle, the acceleration is controlled by the throttle, increasing the air/gasoline entering the combustion chamber.
In an HHO modified vehicle, HHO fuel production is controlled by the ratio of electrolyte & the electricity being pushed through the HHO generator.
At idle an HHO generator produces less HHO fuel & as the vehicle accelerates on air/gasoline the engine increases Rpm's.
Increasing Rpm's supplies more electricity to the HHO generator increasing HHO output.
There is a delay between opening the throttle & the increased HHO production necessary for acceleration.

In the above, gasoline is still required.

I want to run without gasoline or as little as required in a HHO fueled vehicle.

My question is, How can I create an throttle mechanism for the HHO generator for vehicle acceleration that would not have a delayed response.
e.g., Step on the pedal & pass a car.

Thank you,Eric A. Haakenson / eric_haakenson@yahoo.com
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:24 AM   #2
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There's no way you're going to produce enough HHO on demand to power a roadworthy vehicle, nevermind a vehicle with such a thirst as that. To power a vehicle completely on HHO on demand would violate the laws of thermodynamics. You would have in essence, a perpetual motion machine.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:53 AM   #3
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Not necessarily but you would kill the battery really quick, since the amount of power you create with HHO would use more electricity than your alternator can put out.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:01 AM   #4
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Hi Eric, the other guys are right: hydrogen will only ever be supplemental for your heavy vehicle. Years ago I put a hydrogen generator on my odyssey and played for a while. hydrogen burns very quickly so you really need to retard the timing a bit...see if you can do that and see what happens. My honda's ecu kept compensating for my adjustments, and it turned into a headache for me, but your truck won't have those controls systems and headaches. I've read that engines designed and/or optimized for hydrogen can see gains of up to 30%, but I suspect you wouldn't ever see better than 15% on your truck, probably not even that much. Just my suspicions but I'd love it if you could prove me wrong on this!

I'm curious to hear how it goes for you. What system are you using?
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:49 AM   #5
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First, Thanks to All who have replied, I am please to find this active forum & quality responses.
Replying to Jay2TheRescue: Here is my thought process, You or others are free to refine my understanding. Gasoline is a fuel that works. Hydrogen (HHO) is just another fuel. If I understood the Ratio of the Gasoline/HHO required from Startup to max acceleration then develop a HHO flow control/throttle (assuming I have sufficient HHO production/stored reserves), then all I am doing is changing my fuel source. I will have to review the Law of Thermodynamics. Regarding a perpetual motion machine, My understanding is a perpetual motion machine the original fuel source is not diminished, just as a gasoline tank is consumed by vehicle use, so the HHO water in the electrolyte solution would also diminish. Therefore, I don't think trading fuel sources that both are consumed is considered a perpetual motion machine.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:59 AM   #6
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Thank you JanGeo, Yes Production on Demand for Acceleration seems impossible, alternately a control release of a protected stored HHO fuel source mimicking the increasing gasoline consumed in acceleration would possibly be the solution. And Yes, Safety is critical, but as we carry a tank full of gasoline around with the risk of explosion is it less safe to carry a more protected HHO tank in say a Compressed Air Tank with check valves, flash back, & all required protection.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #7
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Greetings VXonFumes, My 1985 Suburban, (Thankfully) does not have any equipment installed that would fight against an alternate fuel source like HHO. Regarding timing that will have to be adjustment by trial & fix, but finding the right timing for idle may not be the right timing for operation. Any suggestions from All would be greatly appreciated.
Regarding which HHO system/generator I am using now, the answer is none. I have in the past made my own wet cells that had good production but heavy draw on the electricial system. So I have decided to do more research, then purchase a system/components that have the best quality/preformance for the price & install them myself.
Request to All. Please make any recommendations regarding HHO resources, plans, products, articles as I will do the same.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:09 PM   #8
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Making HHO requires more energy than you get out of it when you burn it in your engine so unless you have a massive Bank of batteries to power your generation of the gas or have it stored in a compressed air cylinder you can't generate it on demand without some sort of power source. Usually only a small amount is created to improve the combustion of the gasoline, not to run the engine entirely on the HHO. Perpetual motion reference was in reference to generating it with the alternator as you burned it to run the engine and you can't generate enough power to produce the gas as you burn it for power to keep it running.
You can run on stored gas usually only the hydrogen is needed but with an engine that big you are not going to get much efficiency out of the fuel, a higher compression engine with much smaller displacement would yield plenty of power if designed to burn HHO. The best you could do is to run a modest battery pack which you charge on downhill or deceleration to make HHO to add to your regular gasoline use to improve combustion and add some energy from the battery source to the combustion in the engine. With an engine that big you probably would not have to regulate the HHO production much because you can't make it fast enough to run it on HHO alone anyway. Just make it as fast as you can and keep feeding it to the engine as long as it's running unless you're decelerating or going downhill when you don't need any fuel at all.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:09 PM   #9
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Well, in a sense you are right, that you are consuming the water, but think about what's going on here. You're using electricity from the alternator to break the bonds in water molecules. This electricity does not come for free. With a higher electric load, the alternator is going to put a higher strain on the belt. At this point you've used energy to convert water to HHO, then run it through the engine, then convert it to heat energy, then physical energy (some of which turns the alternator to get electric energy again).

You will never be able to convert enough water, on demand, into HHO to drive the vehicle on a public road. When I was in high school, one kid rigged an HHO setup to a lawnmower motor. He had a 12V 10 amp automotive battery charger powering the HHO setup. He had to run the system for an hour just to get enough HHO to run the motor for 20-30 sec. You may see gains as a supplemental fuel source if you get it adjusted right, but I don't think you will ever be able to drive that vehicle solely on HHO produced on demand.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:32 PM   #10
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Thank you both for you input, at this point, with my limited knowledge, I would not be able to dispute your conclusions. I am increasing my understanding of HHO so I can decern truth from false claims. I will look for math & statistical data to help me make the proper conclusions. I will continue posting here as I have questions.

The query about the gasoline/HHO gas ratio still remains unanswered.
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