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Old 09-09-2008, 10:07 AM   #91
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Sure do...Why would I put in lots of gaslog data for it, and work so hard at realistically fabricating all the detail? For that matter, why would I even create a garage entry for a car I don't have?

I've posted lots of pictures of it as I attempt to do some grille blocking without making it look weird. I've also posted measurements and observations of its behavior, and just the other day I posted some sensor logs.

I'm going to make some semi-blanket statements about the general population here. I DO NOT claim to speak for everyone; I speak for myself only, but I've observed very similar attitudes in a large portion of the rest.

Regarding HHO fans...we do welcome:
- People looking to use it in realistic ways
- People trying to figure out how/why it works
- Even people who hope to find some way to make it work unrealistically well

We don't welcome:
- People trying to sell anything
- People claiming that it works for them in an unrealistic way but not willing to provide lots of data (or any data)

And then there's people who insist that it would work for them in an unrealistic way but don't even claim any personal experience. They come off as trying to sell something, which turns us off, but it's possible that they've just been convinced and are uninformed. Based on that chance, we try to help.

We attempt to provide scientific data to those people, but most of them don't want to hear it, and it degenerates into a worthless discussion...after all, people any either side of such a discussion are still human and prone to responding as they do, feeling like something was a personal attack when it wasn't, and so on.

So, back to the topic. You claim that we "dont know how, will never know how, and wont ever care to know how." By making that claim, you imply that you DO know how. If you know how, please share with us the following:
- Your research
- Your data
- Your experience with it
- The others who must also have done it successfully, unless you're the one person who has managed to make it work but you somehow still have time to post to internet forums between the millions of dollars you must be raking in from people who want the same results -- and that's NOT sarcasm, that's what would really happen if you happened to be the one person who made it work in a demonstrable, repeatable, scientifically-verifiable (even if it somehow defies explanation by existing science, it can still be measured and verified by science) way.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #92
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LOL HC!

Lurch is backing up now, don't push him too hard. When he calms down and starts communicating with his equals, who knows he migh actually learn something.

He might teach us something if he gets that chip off his shoulder.

Until then

gary
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:19 PM   #93
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First of all HC WTF are you talking about? have not you seen the posts where i mention that i dont know how? or have you not seen where i have posted research? but maybe your like ride and would rather not read it so you can wander along ignorant that MAYBE you arent the end all be all of human intellect. and no i'm not backing up, i would have to be attacked by something worthwile to even consider backing up.
i was just going to mention that i had my VW rabbit diesel modified to run at 70 MPG before i sent it to the crusher. northern car and i got tired of dealing with the rust.

And ride. how is it that you are so full of yourself?
I can only think of a few reasons why you act like you do, and none of them are good.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:26 PM   #94
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AND WHEN THE HECK DID I SAY I COULD RUN A CAR ON WATER!?!?!?!
ARE YOU GUYS EVEN ABLE TO READ??? i think its time someone changed your diaper, you act like middle school girls. At first i thought maybe if i explained they might be interested in a discussion. nope all you wanted was to bash someone, you asked for data, i gave more data then you were capable of reading. now all you want to do is be ignorant little retards that are only acting the way they are because your so far away I CANT WRAP MY HANDS AROUND YOUR STUPID LITTLE HEADS.
sorry to everyone else for this post, but stupid people REALLY tick me off.
so for everyone elses sake i'm going to quit giving you 2 morons a target and let you live in your own little bubble of stupid.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:42 PM   #95
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Your previous statement (deleted) was 60,000 MJ/m3 energy content of HHO.

Actually it is 12.3 MJ/m3, for pure hydrogen.

For HHO its 12.3/9 or 1.366 MJ/m3 for your HHO, instead of your quoted 60,000.

Your words, your facts.

You are off by only 59,998.633 megajoules.

regards
gary
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:55 PM   #96
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I have absolutely no doubt you could run your engine on straight HHO.

The problem is the fuel tank.

If you want performance shoot some pure oxygen in your manifold and see what happens, especially since the atmosphere contains 80% nitrogen which is neither an oxidizer, or a fuel. It has a tendency to get in the way of combustion.

For that part if you were really interested in ascertaining empirical facts. You can easily add metered amounts of hydrogen and oxygen into your engine without any hydrogen generator, just used compressed gas, available at your local gas supply company in high pressure bottles.

This allows you to separate the benefit from the cost, energy wise. Use a chassis dyno and get some data. the crank up your generator and see what the difference actually is, with the generation and supply functions completely independent of each other.

regards
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:22 PM   #97
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company that makes efie and power moduals

I work for a small company that makes efie's and power mods and the elements to convert water to hydrogen. I haven't done this to my car yet but am looking to do this soon. They have a number of utube movies that show how it all works. when they do discounts, the price is fairly cheap compared to having to make the circuits on your own. Quite a bit of info on the site also that give a better understanding.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:31 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
First of all HC WTF are you talking about? have not you seen the posts where i mention that i dont know how?
We don't know how either. Until you find someone who does, what makes you think it's possible?

Quote:
or have you not seen where i have posted research?
In order to avoid further confusion, I was posting a complete list of what I suspect it would take to convince lots of people. The list included some things that you already posted.

Quote:
i was just going to mention that i had my VW rabbit diesel modified to run at 70 MPG before i sent it to the crusher. northern car and i got tired of dealing with the rust.
Good job. Those old Rabbits were a very different car, and the diesels more so, but 70 MPG is still very impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
AND WHEN THE HECK DID I SAY I COULD RUN A CAR ON WATER!?!?!?!
Look at the title of the thread you're posting in. If you're talking about a different subject then you're in the wrong thread.

Quote:
ARE YOU GUYS EVEN ABLE TO READ???
We're quite able to read, hence why we think a thread titled "Run your car with water" is about running your car with water. Of course, the wording is vague and could mean any number of things including running your car on gasoline with a bottle of water riding along in the trunk...but on this forum, it's pretty common that something like "run your car with water" means "run your car with water as its only fuel".

Quote:
i think its time someone changed your diaper, you act like middle school girls. At first i thought maybe if i explained they might be interested in a discussion. nope all you wanted was to bash someone, you asked for data, i gave more data then you were capable of reading. now all you want to do is be ignorant little retards that are only acting the way they are because your so far away I CANT WRAP MY HANDS AROUND YOUR STUPID LITTLE HEADS.
sorry to everyone else for this post, but stupid people REALLY tick me off.
so for everyone elses sake i'm going to quit giving you 2 morons a target and let you live in your own little bubble of stupid.
LOL, ok there buddy...people who take internet forums too seriously and too personally end up with mental health problems (I know some individuals IRL who had problems like that). You might want to step back for a moment, remind yourself that we're anonymous jerks at the other end of an internet connection, and say "to hell with them" or just take it one step at a time.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:51 PM   #99
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How many heavy equipment mechanics do you know that are considered fit for the public?
we usually dont live to see the age of 60.
We are really tough high strung aggressive people that tend to see a heavy wrench as the first resort. I'm just the mechanical ability in my group, My groups tells me what needs to be done and i figure out how. My dad has a degree in physics, my brother has a degree in math, and me and a machinist make it work. I dont do equations , I bend things.
and as far as the thread being named "run your car on water"
Several years ago the cubans had an old green pickup that ran on nothing other then water. There is proof, It was all over the news. They got caught by the coastguard about a mile from shore.

sorry, couldnt pass up the pun.

but the thread is called "run your car WITH water"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/with

1. accompanied by; accompanying: I will go with you. He fought with his brother against the enemy.
2. in some particular relation to (esp. implying interaction, company, association, conjunction, or connection): I dealt with the problem. She agreed with me.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:20 AM   #100
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Maybe you should get your brother to check your math, and your father to check your Physics.

I see you used a reference for your English definition. It might be helpful to google "hydrogen energy density" and get the facts about energy density (like I did), instead of using someones "facts" that have an error margin of 59,000 to 1, before you use them to support your position.

Check a couple of different sites (like I did) to make sure their "facts" are the same as others.

My father (still living) was a B17 pilot who used water injection to keep his 4 Wright Cyclones from blowing the cylinder heads off the engine when he took off with a full load of fuel and bombs in 1943-44. Born in 1921. Took him 3 planes to complete 30 Missions (battle damage), handed the DFC by Jimmy Dolittle. Flew top secret missions over the shores of Pas de Calais to convince the Germans that we would invade there instead of Normandy. Those missions were not declassified until 1971.

Also show your father the post you made about me at age 57. I would expect he would not think too highly of your opinion of people who have a lot more experience than yourself.

Now in your defense;

I think the most effective use of HHO is in heavy equipment, where alternator loads are relatively insignificant compared to power use. At lower and idle speeds HHO MIGHT improve fuel economy.

That is what the local HHO distributors told me when I had a personal meeting with them, and actually rode around my local area with one of the two people who were promoting HHO. There were truckers who claimed it helped their mileage (never met any of them). The same distributor told me it would probably not work well in my Honda.

Oh yes Virginia has passed a law that any system installed on an emissions compliant vehicle must be certified to pass emissions of the same vehicle. Leaning out mixtures, messing with timing, and introducing very fast burning hydrogen into a combustion chamber has a tendency to make NOX emissions skyrocket.

The fine per violation is $2500.

Advising and encouraging people to ignore the emission laws could be construed as a conspiratorial act, in the rare event the government decided to make an example of someone who thinks emission controls on vehicles are something they can render inoperative without consequence.

No a scare tactic or some interstellar conspiracy. In 30 years of working on vehicles I was never summoned to appear in court to answer for my actions in dealing with at least several thousand customers and many times that number of contracts.

regards
gary
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