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Old 09-07-2008, 01:13 PM   #71
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If you are interested in learning something Lurch do some research, then come on back and you can be an authority, but you need an audience.

Fact
1.45 British Thermal Units of heat energy (didn't want to confuse you with an abbreviation) of hydrogen gas in 1 liter of HHO.
120,000 British Thermal Units of heat energy in one gallon of gasoline.

Fact
11.111111111111111% of HHO gas contains energy> the rest is oxygen, which contains no heat energy whatsoever.

Fact
1.45 BTU of heat energy will fire two cylinders on my 57.75MPG Civic VX one time each cylinder. which will move my car exactly 1/2000 of a mile at 60 MPH. Thats 5280/2000 feet on 1 liter of HHO.

Fact
Thats 2.64 feet per liter of HHO, or 2000 liters per mile.

As to the argument of HHO being a combustion enhancer. Current engine designs consume 97% of the fuel introduced into the engine. Your maximum benefit assuming perfect (impossible) combustion would be a 3% increase in gasoline conbustion efficiency.

Yep you could run your car on HHO, you only need a 2000 liter fuel tank to travel one mile.

Just put the hydrogen in a balloon and let the wind blow you a mile and you get infinite MPG.

Take the attitude and park it where the sun don't shine.

regards
gary
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:19 PM   #72
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The Physics of Internal Combustion Engines

Lesson 1

Take the atmosphere, squeeze it into an area about 1/10th the original area, add a combustible substance and ignite the mixture.

Temperature rises to about 3200 degrees, which creates a sevenfold increase in pressure, from 200 PSI to over 1600 PSI which pushes on the piston and produces useful work.

No significant increase in BTU content of the fuel means no significant increase in peak combustion temperature and no increase in pressure=no more power.

regards
gary
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:48 PM   #73
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Lol, who are you and where do you come up with the conclusion i'm getting attitude?

but since your throwing numbers let me fill you in on the right ones and NOT what you invented

came across an interesting article regarding the possibility of running an engine on nothing but HHO, aka hydroxy. There was much more to the article but I wanted to share the part of the discussion regarding the possibility of running an ICE on no fossil fuel. Granted, we aren't "there" just yet but it isn't outside of the realm of possibility. The aim of the article wasn't to say that the author is doing this but to provide information which strongly suggests that it could be done:



[REMOVED EXCESSIVE QUOTING FROM OTHER WEBSITES BECAUSE IT IS ANNOYING AND NOT BACKED UP BY FACT]
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:59 PM   #74
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Your land speed record car is running on pure hydrogen which has 9 times the energy density of HHO.

The equivalent volume of Propane in a gaseous state at room temp has nine times the energy of pure hydrogen gas and 81 times the energy of HHO.

The BMW example needs 112 liters, roughly 28 gallons of cryogenically frozen LIQUID HYDROGEN to go 125 miles.

My car at the same speed needs 2.2 gallons of gasoline.

At your quoted expansion ratio of 848, and knowing your HHO is ony 11.1% hydrogen, your 125 miles would require.

112litersX848ERX9(percentage H2)=854,784 liters of HHO to contain the same energy as 112 liters of liquid hydrogen.

854,784 liters of HHO

or

4 gallons of gasoline (estimated for BMW at 31.25 MPG)

Note:
think Space shuttle when you get into any serious collision in any car with 112 liters of liquid hydrogen in a fuel tank.

You like to change fuels and bounce from one to the other in your long, wordy and unnecessary post. For the sake of those that are already bored with this, keep it simple.

I liter of Propane gas at room temperature
1 liter of HHO gas(not H2 with 9 times the energy density) at room temperature.

The energy content of each please?

regards
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:40 PM   #75
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hmmm... i dont think you actually read my post, if you didnt you wouldnt have made that last comment.. but maybe i confused you. but i doubt it seeing as how extremely smart and everything that you are.
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:21 PM   #76
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The confusion stems from statements like;

"One researcher calculated via experimental data that hydroxy contains 60,000 KJ/m3 at 1 atm."

Simple physics class calculation.

Convert MJ to BTU
Convert cubic meters to liters.

Its been a while since I took Physics in high school, 41 years to be exact.

There is no variation in the calculations as long as the temperature is constant.

Any "other" researcher who predicts a ten fold increase in the energy content must be a part time community organizer.

Why read your post completely when the flawed calculations are obvious which renders the conclusion irrelevant.

BTU per liter HHO is 1.45, the same amount of energy you would get from lighting a single wooden match.

The measurements and quantities are well known and very precise, and have been so for over a century, recognized by some of the most brilliant people on the planet, as fact, repeatable and totally verifiable.

Thursday I drove my Honda from Williamsburg, Virginia to Virginia Tech and back, total mileage was about 625 miles at an average speed of 64 MPH. You can see my average mileage in my gas log that covers the last 8000 miles.

Unfortunately for the HHO dreamers you have to ignore the Physics of the situation to support your claims of dramatic improvements in economy and efficiency.

Even the thin thread of combustion efficiency enhancement, and assuming you achieved true Homogenous Charge Compression Ignition, you still can only extract 25% more efficiency out of IC engines without basic redesign of the engine itself.

Do you honestly believe the US military would ignore the logistics advantages of not having to haul billions of gallons of fuel all over the planet for military operations.

I guess it's time for the conspiracy theorey propaganda speech.

Do you drive your car off a cliff to prove the laws of Physics don't apply when you choose to ignore them?

Beam me up Scotty.

regards
gary
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:47 PM   #77
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41 years ago, Then i completely understand you . your not worth arguing with, enjoy whatever you may consider this
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:00 PM   #78
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Thanx, I have actually built my own design that doesnt use an electrolyte, i have it hooked to my car 50% of the time when i'm not testing the ever loving crap out of it. the added power is amazing.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:00 PM   #79
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I believe in HHO. It allows for far leaner mixes to be used than normal, which is a great way to boost highway economy. What I dont believe in is products that claim to violate rules of physics. Sorry.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:05 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalez0r View Post
I believe in HHO. It allows for far leaner mixes to be used than normal, which is a great way to boost highway economy. What I dont believe in is products that claim to violate rules of physics. Sorry.
I completely agree, but I intend to figure out just how far we can lean the mix.
it is possible to run an engine on HHO, but that requires WAY more then i know how to make from a car.
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