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Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

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Old 09-11-2008, 10:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
I really dont think that your diesel truck would have an 02 sensor. but i may be wrong. i havent worked on any diesel consumer vehicles newer then 1990
and i agree with ride, if you shut it off while idling you would negate a lot of what you were trying to do.
as long as you condition your plates and use distilled water with a decent generator design it shouldnt overheat, but even if it did overheat that wouldnt cause an explosion, but it would cause a lot of water vapor to come out of your generator. explosions are usually caused if part of your power system is exposed and corrosive inside the cell.
I meant from steam pressure sorry i should have specified
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:21 AM   #12
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Before the transition, if you had a bad servo in your central locking system the engine would not shut off when you tried to turn it off with the key. The later version shut off all fuel from the injection pump, so a vacuum leak would not cause the engine to keep running when you tried to turn it off.
I have and '87 diesel also mercedes and before i replaced the vacum pump, the engine would continue to run after i would turn the car off. I had to use the emergency shut down swith on the engine to stop it. Would that mean i still had the later version??
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:28 AM   #13
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Gary,
You talked about what i disconnected... the Exhaust Gas Recirculation
what if i put the HHO through there do you think that would be similar to the intake or could i make the engine use it more *** a fuel instead as an additive??
If anyone knows how this would work please let me know
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:31 AM   #14
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The only way to find out is to try the HHO.

If you all read the FAQ I also sent you, if you set the cold amps to about 5 amps it will run about 12-15 amps with out over heating.
I do appriciate all the help you gave me. I plan on reading all of the stuff on saterday and get all of the supplies
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:54 AM   #15
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Keep it simple do the HHO and try to change nothing else. Get a good idea of the difference in economy without changing anything else for the time being.

You don't have the emission modification isues with a feedback closed loop system that the gas engine people have to deal with.

That way you can convince yourself scientifically that you have a definable advantage.

The EGR is designed to give you the most exhaust gas when you have the engine under load. I would not use that system to introduce your HHO, unless it was just for the distribution in which case you would be fine.

More clarity, don't try to integrate the operation of your HHO injection into the control system for your EGR, just use it as a good distribution pathway.


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Old 09-11-2008, 11:26 AM   #16
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ok yeah thanks for explaining im still a newby when it comes to cars
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:56 PM   #17
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I've been looking stuff up on Hydrogen Generators lately. They fascinate me as a possible (though unlikely) source of improved fuel economy and its just fun to fill up groceries sacks with HHO and blow them up. Its a win-win for me either way. But here is what I've found so far for the best production...

Stainless Steel Electrodes (316 is most commonly used)
Very Close Spacing 1mm - 1.5mm
Distilled Water
Sodium Hydroxide NaOH (Lye) or Potassium Hydroxide Electrolyte
More electrolytes draw more amps and makes more HHO
Increased surface area equals increased HHO (such as sanding steel plates.)
Each plate only requires around 2.2 volts of electricity (14.7 volts / 2.2 volts = 6.68 electrode plates)

This is what seems to be the general consensus so far. I'm still researching to figure out what people think the best plate configuration is, such as + N - N - N +. N being a neutral plate not connected directly to the power source. I hope this helps out a bit.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by R.I.D.E. View Post

The EGR is designed to give you the most exhaust gas when you have the engine under load. I would not use that system to introduce your HHO, unless it was just for the distribution in which case you would be fine.

More clarity, don't try to integrate the operation of your HHO injection into the control system for your EGR, just use it as a good distribution pathway.


regards
gary
The EGR on a Diesel is there to control NOx. This happens in a diesel when it is "not" under a high load. Under high load...the combustion chamber is running cooler and NOx is less. I know this sounds counterintuitive but temps inside the cylinder are lower but because of volume, EGT temps are higher.

When it is running "leaner" in the combustion chamber...ie. not under load...the temps rise and NOx is formed. The EGR puts dirty inert mixture from previously burned fuel into the cylinder to replace some of the air/fuel mix and keep temsp down below the temps that NOx rise.
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Old 09-12-2008, 04:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JohnNeiferd View Post
I've been looking stuff up on Hydrogen Generators lately. They fascinate me as a possible (though unlikely) source of improved fuel economy and its just fun to fill up groceries sacks with HHO and blow them up. Its a win-win for me either way. But here is what I've found so far for the best production...

Stainless Steel Electrodes (316 is most commonly used)
Very Close Spacing 1mm - 1.5mm
Distilled Water
Sodium Hydroxide NaOH (Lye) or Potassium Hydroxide Electrolyte
More electrolytes draw more amps and makes more HHO
Increased surface area equals increased HHO (such as sanding steel plates.)
Each plate only requires around 2.2 volts of electricity (14.7 volts / 2.2 volts = 6.68 electrode plates)

This is what seems to be the general consensus so far. I'm still researching to figure out what people think the best plate configuration is, such as + N - N - N +. N being a neutral plate not connected directly to the power source. I hope this helps out a bit.

Yeah it did help it just confirmed what i am doing so it good to see that other people think that is the best way
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:00 AM   #20
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Darby;

You may be correct in reference to diesels.

Actually diluting the incoming air fuel mix, with recycled exhaust gas, reduces peak combustion temperatures, which reduce NOX. In gasoling engines that reduces peak temps from 3500 degrees to below 3200 degrees. Without EGR preignition becomes potentially catastrophic.

You added "high" load to my statement about loads. In a spark ignition engine you have restricted air intake up to a point where the throttle opening and load combine to allow a full charge of air into the combustion chamber (close to 0 vacuum readings). In an unthrottled diesel (there were throttled versions some time ago), full charges of air are always present, which can allow a change in EGR delivery tactics.

At idle in a diesel with AF ratios much higher than a spark ignition engine, you have much more air that can combine with the fuel delivered than the fuel could consume. The excess air acts in the same way as the nitrogen in the air, as a heat absorbing cushion for the small percentage of the total mix that actually ignites.

In the particular example we are discussing you also have a turbocharger and no intercooler, so under higher (my words this time) loads you also have boosted much hotter air introduced into the combustion chamber which increases effective compression beyond the 400 PSI a diesel produces on a guage when being tested.

Peak cylinder temperatures occur when the engine is doing the greatest amount of work, when the ratio of expansion of the air fuel mixture is highest and the greatest pressure is created to push the piston down and create power. At least that is my understanding, maybe you could enlighten me.

I have never seen an EGR system that provided EGR at idle. Thats not saying it doesn't exist, my work with Mercedes diesels ended in the early 1980S, so it certainly is possible that the EGR strategies have changed since then.

Peak combustion chamber temperatures under highest loads in diesels could be lower than under light loads. In that case I defer to your expertise. Under boost the EGR would have to be introduced before the turbocharger. Its been 25 years since I really looked under the hood of a turbodiesel Mercedes.

Good thread, my 60,000 hours of auto expertise ended in the mid 90S, so I certainly have a gap in understand current emissions strategies as the regulations get more stringent.

regards
gary
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