P&G not helpful in Saturn SL2

[dosco]

Originally Posted by Project84

I bet 40 on the highway is attainable for sure, but unfortunately for me, there's no highway around that is flat enough to get 40's. I guess that's what I get for living in KY.

I got about 45 mpg in my Camry that has a larger engine and weighs more than your Saturn. I drove from Maryland to upstate New York, which involves driving through the Catskill Mountains.

I'm sure that proper P&G with your car, even on the biggest hills, will get you a very nice mpg number. I would wager at least 45 mpg if not better.

[Project84]

It makes sense to me that your larger car, with larger engine, would have better gearing for highway.... a larger engine makes more power, takes less of a gear to get it moving.

My Car shifts into 4th at 35 mph when warmed up, and the RPM's climb quick after 45mph. 60mph is like 2,800 RPM.

My parent's Bonneville for example weighs nearly 1,200 lbs more, has an engine which is larger by 1.9L (double my engine), but at 60mph it's cruising at 1,700 RPM, probably very similar to your Camry.

[SolidLiquidSnake]

I'm curious to know what your SL2 is getting, and if it's auto or manual transmission.

I've been considering removing the side view mirrors, but I use them religiously and don't like turning my head to see what's in the other lane, these cars have little/no blind spot, so the mirrors are just about perfect.

I wonder what an SL2 auto could get done up like "lovemysan's car". I believe his is 5sp SL1 w/ no spoiler, grill block, HAI, underbody paneling, rear wheel skirts, and no side mirrors and he's getting over 50mpg.

I bet 40 on the highway is attainable for sure, but unfortunately for me, there's no highway around that is flat enough to get 40's. I guess that's what I get for living in KY.

I have an automatic and I use P&G quite frequently here in the city. I used to average 32 mpg highway when I didn't used to P&G and drive like I depended on the gas. Believe it or not, our cars are nearly identical the way you are describing yours. When the car is warm P&G is easy and almost refreshing to know that I can save assloads.

I want to do something with my car though, I want to learn how to HAI or do something small and not ugly to my car to better enhance aerodynamics. After my next fill up I'm finally going to inflate my tires from the door's recommended psi to the max sidewall. So this is only the beginning.

[dosco]

Originally Posted by Project84

It makes sense to me that your larger car, with larger engine, would have better gearing for highway.... a larger engine makes more power, takes less of a gear to get it moving.

From an energy perspective, it should take more energy to move the Camry (~3300 lbs) than a Saturn (~2400 lbs) and therefore should have poorer mpg than a Saturn.

Looking at the Gaslog entries, there are many Saturns that get better mpg numbers than my Camry. A quick look shows 40+ mpg.

The confound, of course, is how the car is driven. I can get 40+ mpg with solely highway miles. Local traffic kicks my butt, bringing mileage down to the low 30's.

[Project84]

The saturns in the 40+ are all SOHC... I know of ZERO DOHC Saturns in the 40's. Just my 2 cents on that topic.

Solid - I just did a ghetto HAI, took about an 30 minutes and $15 at the hardware store, also got heat shield material which will also be utilized when I do the grille block. HAI takes nothing away from aesthetics, so go for it!

My SL2 is a '96 w/ 140k, pw, pl, sunroof, rear drum brakes, 15in. alloys, spoiler, and cruise control. I have 205 tires on it for a bigger foot print, but went to a 60 profile rather than stock 65, so I should be getting the same speedometer readout + 1%. A short in the wiring disabled the DRL, oh well... lol, wipers operate by themselves intermittently, can't track that down. exhuast system has been worked on numerous times. All in all though, I've come to really love it.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by dosco

From an energy perspective, it should take more energy to move the Camry (~3300 lbs) than a Saturn (~2400 lbs) and therefore should have poorer mpg than a Saturn.

For highway mileage, weight is not a very large factor. At steady high speeds, aero is the largest issue, along with engine/drivetrain efficiency. With tall gearing a larger engine may actually be more efficient than a small engine, as engine friction goes up exponentially, not linearly, with RPM.

[SolidLiquidSnake]

Originally Posted by Project84

Solid - I just did a ghetto HAI, took about an 30 minutes and $15 at the hardware store, also got heat shield material which will also be utilized when I do the grille block. HAI takes nothing away from aesthetics, so go for it!

My SL2 is a '96 w/ 140k, pw, pl, sunroof, rear drum brakes, 15in. alloys, spoiler, and cruise control. I have 205 tires on it for a bigger foot print, but went to a 60 profile rather than stock 65, so I should be getting the same speedometer readout + 1%. A short in the wiring disabled the DRL, oh well... lol, wipers operate by themselves intermittently, can't track that down. exhuast system has been worked on numerous times. All in all though, I've come to really love it.

I'd like to know how you made your ghetto HAI, it's really appealing to me and I want to do it to my car, probably this weekend if I could. I've heard of seran wrap, but I'm unsure if that's what should be used or really, how I do it in general.

Your car sounds like you've been through some craziness.. You can't fix the wipers or the DRL?? I'd be more annoyed by the wipers then anything..

I'm glad you love your car as I love mine too and bought it for the soul purpose of Saturn SL2's being good on gas.. The only problem I've had with my car is the car rpm when shifting to park or drive jumping way too high and staying there too long before correcting itself. We discovered it was the PCV and we fixed it with making a little catch can because it did also seem to burn some oil and we were trying to find out if this synthetic oil was just the cause or if my car actually was burning oil. Turns out my car is running fine and synthetic oil is out and 10w 30 is in!

[theholycow]

Please, don't fix the DRLs on your '96 Saturn. They make WAY too much glare, doing far more harm than good.

[Project84]

I used a 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" silicone plumbing coupler, a 1 1/2" 90* plumbing PVC elbow, and 3" flex tubing for dryer exhaust.

Remove the resonator from the air box, drill the hole where it was out to roughly 1 1/2" diameter, stuff in the 90* elbow from the inside, keeping the flared end in the airbox to prevent it from pulling out, put the silicone cuppler on the elbox on the outside of the airbox, oh, I forgot, I used a 1" section of 2" PVC pipe, put that in the 2 1/2" end of the coupler, band clamped the flex tubing over the coupler and routed it through the A/C lines, next to the coil packs, and under the exhaust manifold.

I then drileld and tapped a hole in the lid of the airbox and relocated the Intake Air Temp sensor there, so it would read the hot air, and I blocked off the old inlet fo the IAT sensor. On hot days, so far I've seen 160*F w/ no heat shield or grill block.

As for the DRL, if I could fix them, I would, I cleaned all the grouned, checked the wiring, fuses and relays.... all is well. I can't find the source, so they'll stay messed up. I didn't care for DRL's, but knowing they won't function properly makes me wonder if there's an electrical short somewhere draining voltage, because the DRL's went out the same day the passanger side high beam stopped working... goofy electrical issues w/ this car.

I've also replaced the radiator, rotors TWICE in 15k miles, pads once, and front control arms/ball joints.

Just did oil change last night, car still sounds like a diesel. ho-hum.

[dosco]

Originally Posted by theholycow

For highway mileage, weight is not a very large factor. At steady high speeds, aero is the largest issue, along with engine/drivetrain efficiency.

Sure.

With tall gearing a larger engine may actually be more efficient than a small engine, as engine friction goes up exponentially, not linearly, with RPM.

I'm still having a hard time buying that a SL2 could not achieve 35+ mpg, OTOH he's stated that most of his driving is city, so I wouldn't expect anything stellar.

For ****s and grins I pulled out some of my uber-old fillup records from when I owned a '93 SL2. Mileage numbers varied from 20 to 30 mpg, which I'm sure has do do with driving types (city versus highway) and regular "gagging the engine" (I used to hammer the hell out of that car). Back then (the records are from when I lived in NorCal, so it would be 1996 or so vintage info) I tried a product called "petromoly" (oil with moly disulfide in suspension) and was curious to see if the stuff improved mileage. It didn't.

Lastly, I don't know what the gear ratios are compared between an SL2 and a 99 Camry LE. From experience driving a '93 SL2, I recall that on the highway in 5th gear and 65 mph the engine wasn't running at an unusually high rpm. City driving is a different story, though. The engine was easy to work over the entire rev range...