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Old 05-19-2008, 07:44 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by JanGeo View Post
I feel sorry for some of you Honda guys getting in the low 30's when I drive a Scion xB getting 40-41 lifetime average - this tank 43mpg (was 44 for a while then some short hops killed it) for a big white box! Here's a sleeper for ya!
For some reason Honda has fallen behind Toyota in the FE department. The Fit is a prime case in point. Although I think the xB and Fit get similar EPA numbers?
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:16 AM   #32
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As long as you are including BMW's then the 325e and 528e from the 80's should be mentioned.. They both were designed for good mileage, low rpm, low friction engines with very high final drive ratios and an analog mpg readout stock from the factory.
hmmm, interesting...
I don't get much out of my '88 325ic, 17-22 city, maybe 27 highway.
6 cylinder automatic convertible, maybe stick sedans are better and you did say the e (not the i)...

For myself my 325ic doesn't even lend itself to hypermiling nowhere near as much as I would like it to, but the 318is stick sure does wow I can do some EOC's in that one it's just amazing I can coast for miles it seems lol also dwb'ing is REAL nice, the stout shocks help it corner so the performance aspect widens the velocity margins at which one can still corner safely.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:21 AM   #33
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hmmm, interesting...
I don't get much out of my '88 325ic, 17-22 city, maybe 27 highway.
6 cylinder automatic convertible, maybe stick sedans are better and you did say the e (not the i)...

For myself my 325ic doesn't even lend itself to hypermiling nowhere near as much as I would like it to, but the 318is stick sure does wow I can do some EOC's in that one it's just amazing I can coast for miles it seems lol also dwb'ing is REAL nice, the stout shocks help it corner so the performance aspect widens the velocity margins at which one can still corner safely.
The "e" on the 325e and 528e is for the Greek letter eta, which is often used in engineeringspeak to stand for efficiency.. In the case of the BMW eta models that is just what it meant, they were designed for efficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M20

The 2.7 L M20B27 was designed for efficiency (thus the e for the Greek letter eta in 325e). It had an 84 mm (3.3 in) bore and a longer 81 mm (3.2 in) stroke for a total displacement of 2693 cc. The eta engine used the same "200" head casting as the carbureted 2.0 liter and K-jetronic 2.3 as featured in the E21 but only utilizes four camshaft bearings for reduced internal friction. The heads still have seven journals cast into them though and can be drilled to oil a seven bearing cam.

Output was 121 hp at 4250 RPM for all models produced through model year 1987 and 127 hp at 4800 RPM for the final year of production in 1988. Peak torque is 170 ft?lbf at about 3250 RPM for all years of the eta. This was the first engine BMW built with fuel economy as the top priority. In production it was coupled to either a 2.93:1 differential for the E28 5 series and most E30 3 series models or a 2.79:1 for early E30 3 series cars with manual transmissions. The tall final drive gearing was required to keep the engine in its best operating range at various road speeds. These features did achieve exceptional efficiency, but at the expense of the performance typically associated with the marque.

All eta engines used Bosch Motronic engine management systems that were calibrated for maximum fuel economy. The result was a very conservative spark advance curve and fuel delivery curve. In addition, the Motronic had a built-in rev limiter that engaged at about 4750 rpm. This very low redline was the result of the four bearing cam, soft valve springs, intake manifold and camshaft design. Due to the very low overlap and short duration of the cam and the intake manifold tuning, the motor does not make any power over about 5,000 RPM.


325e and 528e BMWs are still fairly easy to find on the used market.. A nice one can be had for around $2500 or so..

Parts are available, the little Bimmers are enthusiasts cars so there is a big aftermarket in keeping them running.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:57 AM   #34
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Good FE cars...

1975 Datsun B-210 (other years probably similar)...mine got up to 32 mpg w/o any unusual driving techniques

Just about any small diesel car (Chevette, VW Rabbit, Mazda 626) of the early '80s.

Something a little bigger? My '83 Eldorado runs at about 25 or so mpg on the freeway...not too bad for what it is. The later model Lincoln town cars (after about '91 or so) run around 24 mpg on the freeway.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:22 PM   #35
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Bmw 318is in my book, but with 4 valves per cylinder and double overhead cams and 4 ignition coils and multiport fuel rails you REALLY have to drive this car SUPER nice to see 35mpg. The 318 all it has is a 4-banger, the mini cooper's engine but with a fuller body it doesn't look the 'mini' part.
The older MINI had a Brazilian Chrysler engine in it and the new one has a Peugeot/Citroen/BMW 4 in it. The 318 had a BMW engine.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:35 PM   #36
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BMW eta engines ARE great for FE in the BMW 6 department. But keep in mind the 4 cyls BMW was using at the time were great as well. The eta was a move to put a 6 cyl into a small US-bound BMW as there was no "6" option for the earlier 320i and 2002 cars while still being stingy on gas. So don't rule out the e30 318i, either.

I think my 9-5 is rather sleeperish myself being a big 3500 lb crusier that in my driving is seeing over 30 mpg
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:50 PM   #37
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I used to have a 1980 Pontiac Bonneville, 5.7L V8. Got 30 hwy, cruise control, 55 MPH. No ethanol in the gas, either.

We fit 11 people in it one time, and had the larger 2-door (bigger than the 4-door!). Nobody in the trunk either, 11 people between front & back seats.

I had a genius mechanic. This was in college. I went back to him one time and he had just plain vanished, even the landlord didn't know how to get ahold of him. Wonder if he figured out some of those carb secrets.

The first time I got a tuneup from him, I asked him to turn on the car so I could hear what it sounded like. He politely informed me that it was indeed on! You couldn't hear this thing idle, the tailpipe was merely warm, but I went from 18 hwy to 30 MPG hwy due solely to his tuneup. Big cars CAN get good mileage. That's why I want to switch to propane.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:07 PM   #38
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I used to have a 1980 Pontiac Bonneville[...]
Big cars CAN get good mileage.
I bet it was much lighter than an equivalent sized modern car. My 1980 2 door Lesabre weighs in at 3500 pounds, svelt for a car with a trunk big enough to park a VW in.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:50 PM   #39
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My dad actually put a 350 in a vega. He even put the 12 bolt posi in it and still is capable of over 30 mpg. The engine puts out roughly 300 hp. The transmission is a 700r4. This car could do a lot better with a smaller cam, fuel ingection, and some aero mods. This car could easily get 40 mpg and still outrun most cars on the road (chirping the tires in third). This car just goes to show a bigger hammer can be better
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:56 PM   #40
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