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Old 11-19-2017, 03:15 AM   #11
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I too see hybrids as a thole to range in electric vehicles. As EVs get usable range and recharging times, hybrids will go the way of VCRs.
Charging points needs government legislation. As mains electrical outlets needed legislation to create standards, albeit different in different countries, so too will charging points. However, in these early years of EV technology, until some standardisation in technology is reached there can be no standardisation in charging protocol.
Stand by for graphene-based hybrid supercapacitor technology...
500 mile range and 1 minute recharge!

https://electrek.co/2017/11/14/fiske...electric-cars/

Something along these lines could completely change charging (High Voltage - Low Current), so until some sort of technology is settled on there is no point in forcing standardisation of charging points. Hopefully, as the big manufacturers get on board, they will work out some standard, especially as there seems to be many collaborations coming to the fore.
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Old 11-19-2017, 03:59 AM   #12
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I'm enjoying 4.5 cents a mile in a rescue from the scrapper Echo that cost me $850. The Mirage is taking a break to get the 10-100 power train and 5-60 bumper to bumper warranty back in sync, by next june it will be there, but that's only 833 miles a month so actually it needs to take a one year break. Difference in fuel is $10 per 1000 miles at current prices, which are far below what was predicted just a few years ago.

With AVERAGE vehicle ages in the US close to 11 years, any transition will be glacially slow. To me it's like watching movies, pay a lot to see it now, or a small fraction to see it later. Until then I have a garage full of stuff I bought with the coin I did not spend on fuel. Nothing borrowed either, makes for a comfortable life on a relatively small income and even lower tax liabilities, kind of a snowball effect anyone can exercise if they have the determination.

Jack up the fuel price? Just ride the bike more at 2.5 cents a mile. Property taxes are almost a joke with the Mirage depreciated to $5k with 37 k on the odometer. By far my greatest annual cost is insurance and if I bought a $30k plus car the insurance and taxes would wipe out and fuel savings altogether.

At garage sales you can buy battery powered tools for a few cents on the dollar, since the batteries cost more to replace than the residual value on the tools. The last IC powered tool I have is a pressure washer that I paid $50 for, Haven't used it in months.

06 Prius $3k with new $3k battery 214k miles.
https://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/d...392911497.html
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Old 11-19-2017, 04:29 AM   #13
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I recommended a Black & Decker cordless electric lawn mower to my brother years ago. I usually don't give out bad advise, but that was one of them. The three batteries that came with the machine were not usable after two years and Black & Decker changed their batteries; so the lawn mower with the batteries were junk after two years. F... Black & Decker for not supporting their products. I told my brother that if the batteries go in a few years, just replace them with better ones. How wrong I was. He bought a double blade Honda lawn mower (with catalytic converter) last year with the cheating diesel money he got from Volkswagen; he's never been happier.

I rode a Zero electric bike a few years ago, it was nice; but not $15,000 nice; more like $5,000 nice. All the electric bike manufacturers went belly up a few years ago.

I like electric cars, but I'm cheap; so I would like them even more for half price. Here is a video I watched years ago that compares EVs vs ICE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9m9WDxmSN8
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:33 AM   #14
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I think Renault are doing the right thing leasing batteries, ok so it's another monthly payment, but so is fuel. As you can see with the comparison, even with an efficient hybrid, the costs now are still cheaper. It will help depreciation too, imagine 10-12 years down the line when the battery has lost a bit of capacity, who's going to pay Russian roulette and risk buying an EV with a tired battery, knowing they may have to fork out more than the cars value in the near future? If you buy a used EV where the battery has been leased, and it needs replacing 2 months after you bought it, well the previous owners monthly payments have covered it, and you essentialy get a "new" car, with the same range it left the factory with. In fact, used EV's with tired batteries might be worth MORE as people will be hoping for a new battery to be fitted.
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:45 AM   #15
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The trouble with cars with leased batteries is no one wants to buy them secondhand. The sellers are having to buy the lease out before they can sell them.
New car buyers find a lease just an additional payment to their car finance. However, for the punter buying a used car, they are not in a position to fork out a large monthly payment (if they were they would probably be purchasing a much newer vehicle). With the Zoe it will cost 89 a month for battery hire, if you do 10,000 miles per year. My local Ford dealer is offering a new Fiesta for 139/mth!
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Old 11-19-2017, 12:58 PM   #16
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The lease is transferred to the next buyer until the battery needs replacing. As batteries become more durable and last longer, the costs will be adjusted and keep falling. Yea a new Fiesta is 139 a month, but add another 100 for fuel. I spent 10,000 on fuel on my Fiat 500, with parts, servicing and everything else, I spent over 21,000 in 5 years, and that's a tiny car.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:23 PM   #17
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A Nissan Leaf coming off a 3 year lease depreciates about $21k, not including taxes, registration, cost of fuel (electricity), insurance and maintenance (at least a set of tires).

While it's not really fair to compare per mile costs between the US and UK. We have not even considered the option of used, which brings the Echo into the equation, where the depreciation for 37 k miles is basically non-existent. It's entirely possible after bringing everything up to date, that I could cover another 37k miles for a total cost of less than $5k, and sell the car for $1500 to $2k when that distance is covered, bringing TCO down to less than 10 cents a mile.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draigflag View Post
The lease is transferred to the next buyer
I know the lease is transferred. But second hand buyers, of older cars, don't want a car with a lease. Most don't have the wherewithal for a steep monthly payment.
If I was in the position to buy a new car, I would. I cannot, so I buy secondhand. I still have the on costs to pay for whether new or secondhand.
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.I.D.E. View Post
A Nissan Leaf coming off a 3 year lease depreciates about $21k, not including taxes, registration, cost of fuel (electricity), insurance and maintenance (at least a set of tires).

While it's not really fair to compare per mile costs between the US and UK. We have not even considered the option of used, which brings the Echo into the equation, where the depreciation for 37 k miles is basically non-existent. It's entirely possible after bringing everything up to date, that I could cover another 37k miles for a total cost of less than $5k, and sell the car for $1500 to $2k when that distance is covered, bringing TCO down to less than 10 cents a mile.
Yea I used to do that, my first few cars were all second hand, saved a fortune, enough to buy my first brand new car aged 21. I could continue doing that too, but I love cars, and I don't mind spending or loosing money on them. As long as you get a good discount to begin with, and sell before it looses too much money. Not worth comparing a car about to be scrapped to a brand new one in my opinion.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:32 AM   #20
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I do the opposite. I buy a fairly old car, run it until it is done, then replace it. Not doing too bad. I have only had 4 cars (including the Jazz) in the last 26 years, and I hope to get at least another 5 years out of the one I have at present.
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