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Old 05-29-2008, 06:56 AM   #1
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The new Hybrid SUV's are here!

So what! They still suck. 24/32mpg?! What a joke. If GM wants to fix it's declining sales they need to do better than that.

The VW TDI is still king. Jeep dropped a 2.0TDI into a Jeep Compass and it got 55mpg. But they don't sell it in the US. I'd buy one this weekend. Are you listening Jeep, GM Ford? They must be morons or sleeping with OPEC.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:05 AM   #2
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So much hate, and this from a guy with an extra-long F250 and a Jeep.

Folks are buying SUVs. Would you rather they keep getting 20mpg, or improve to 28?

The hybrid system GM has in their pickups is really cool and I'd love to have it even if it didn't save any gas. Two 80hp electric motors in the transmission, a bunch of batteries, and a heavy duty inverter so you can run power tools off the truck. Add an electric-only mode and plug-in recharging and I'll be in love.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:46 PM   #3
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The civic is my DD and is up to 38-40 mix driving. The Jeep is up to 26.8 avg now that I've started working on it. The F250 pulls a 9000lb camper. I can't do that with a civic.

A well tuned small diesel beats the crap out of these poor engineered Hybrids. The tech has been around for 50 years. The US is being worked over by big oil and EPA.

The Jeep is a CRD. The CRD's can do over 30mpg when tuned right. But DC fubared them and most only get 23.

Will you buy a Hybrid @ 26mpg average? They can do better. Just won't bother until America is near bankrupt.

How about a full size pickup 4 wheel drive that can pull a 6000lb load and get 30mpg? What?! You say. Simple, get a chevy with a six speed and drop in an Isuzu 4 cylinder turbo diesel.

What's the big deal? Oh, duh, it makes too much sense.
What about emissions? Duh, run a B5 blend.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:03 PM   #4
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A well tuned small diesel beats the crap out of these poor engineered Hybrids.
Which "poor engineered hybrids" are you talking about exactly?
With diesel fuel running about 25% above the cost of gasoline, its a dead technology. Even in Germany diesel cars have started losing market share in the last year. The diesel car will be dead in America long before it has a chance to touch 1% market share.
The HCCI engine is about 1 year away from production at which point gasoline will be far cheaper per mile than diesel fuel. Hybrids already have that honor but some people can't handle the all those electronics running around their car. The faster get diesels off the road (especially those SVO powered Mercedes stench slugs) the better.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:47 PM   #5
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HCCI is compression ignition, just a different fuel. Weren't Diesels first engines made to run on peanut oil.

Biofuel made from not consumable agriculture like switchgrass.

Energy independence the new Manhattan Project.

regards
gary
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Old 05-29-2008, 04:18 PM   #6
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Diesel engines and HCCI engines don't share any components. The diesel engine burns expensive diesel fuel and has high NOx and HC emissions that require expensive exhaust after treatment. The HCCI engine burns 87 octane gasoline or E10 or E85 and has a normal catalytic converter in the exhaust. The HCCI uses spark ignition at start up and high load/high RPM. The rest of the time it functions under compression ignition. Gasoline HCCI has been running in labs for decades. The difficult part has been the engine management that has to be able to decide when and to switch between HCCI and SI.
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Old 05-29-2008, 04:42 PM   #7
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So what! They still suck. 24/32mpg?! What a joke. If GM wants to fix it's declining sales they need to do better than that.
I'm not really impressed with the tiny gas hybrid cars myself.

I mean, if I got 42MPG in an old ratty Datsun years ago, getting similar milage from a hybrid, well, it doesn't make me excited. I drive longer distances, so, really, the hybrids don't do much for me at all.

Diesels would be great, but I blame the messed up religious in the EPA for destroying that market.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxgraphix View Post
So what! They still suck. 24/32mpg?! What a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxgraphix View Post
The Jeep is up to 26.8 avg now that I've started working on it.


Quote:
The F250 pulls a 9000lb camper. I can't do that with a civic.
I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't have it. Just pointing out this: Pot. Kettle. Black.

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A well tuned small diesel beats the crap out of these poor engineered Hybrids. [...diesels, etc...]
I agree, much better economy can be had with appropriately sized and tuned diesels. Even better, diesel hybrids. I don't think it's some vast conspiracy, though; I think the consumers are not interested in buying. Good luck selling a 4 cylinder diesel full size pickup to the market in general.

Manufacturers aren't charities and they aren't here to improve the world. They exist to deliver what the customer wants to buy and receive the customer's money. If they can't sell enough diesel 4 trucks at high enough margin, they can't afford to make any.

That's not to say that there aren't people who would want those trucks -- but they're not in the new truck market. The manufacturer can't make used trucks.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:15 PM   #9
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I agree, much better economy can be had with appropriately sized and tuned diesels. Even better, diesel hybrids. I don't think it's some vast conspiracy, though; I think the consumers are not interested in buying. Good luck selling a 4 cylinder diesel full size pickup to the market in general.

Manufacturers aren't charities and they aren't here to improve the world. They exist to deliver what the customer wants to buy and receive the customer's money. If they can't sell enough diesel 4 trucks at high enough margin, they can't afford to make any.

That's not to say that there aren't people who would want those trucks -- but they're not in the new truck market. The manufacturer can't make used trucks.
Excellent post...
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:25 PM   #10
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Weren't Diesels first engines made to run on peanut oil.
yes, and then later, veggie oil. rudolph diesel wanted farmers to be able to produce their own fuel. he was the first to patent, not invent the engine, however.
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