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Old 10-05-2007, 01:51 PM   #11
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prolly not up to the same emission standards of the Toyota.
Hehe... I have no idea what a biodiesel puts out but probably not, no.

That begs an interesting question, though: Do manufacturers even bother with emissions and safety stuff on concept cars? I'd think not, unless they're building something they see as close to manufacturable.

(And to be fair, the 50MPG student car would never meet safety regs and maintain that FE rating.)

Rick
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Old 10-05-2007, 02:59 PM   #12
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Hybrid Tech

I'm not picking on you, just the industry and media. <Now looking in the opposite direction> Caution: Editorial

OK, I'll admit: that car's pretty darn cool. That fact that HS students worked on it makes it less of a Corporate stunt -- which is my knee-jerk interpretation of most auto news stories lately (especially with the Toyota as basis for this thread).

For the masses, not equating "Hybrid" with "Slow" is very important. I'll agree.

But first, a point. The linked article is guilty of carrying the hybrid stereotype in the first sentence -- it's quoted to paint hybrids as "unexciting and slow". I don't claim to be a car expert, but the Prius I drove a couple weeks ago actually accelerated briskly when prompted, and the handling was light and fun. It's no Lotus Elise, but to me, it holds both qualities of spirited driving when needed, and economy the rest of the time. To most, its appearance speaks otherwise, unfortunately. The Camry Hybrid has some decent numbers. I won't go into the big and/or mild Hybrids (Lexus, Chevy, Saturn).

Then there's the extinct Honda Accord Hybrid: faster in a 0-60 sprint than any other Accord -- but sales = .

So within our small group, I'm sure we're hoping that stories like this will evolve into more options in fuel-efficient, small, commuter or family vehicles with hybrid drivetrains. America forgets, so we do need stories like this out there.

Don't get me wrong -- I also love horsepower and going fast. I still revert back to my old self (yes, the pre-GS version ). Handling and suspension action is near the top of my list of assessment when I drive a car for the first time. Why is the Fiat X1/9 a popular car of the past? Not because it took an eternity to get to speed, but it handled quite well. Anyways...

So, if we were to buy a sports-car, would these hybrids be on our list if they make it to production? I see many roadsters as occasional-use, weekend cars, that don't represent a huge chunk in overall fuel consumption. Is it more of a novelty item? Are they representatives of what the car company can accomplish, to sell more of the "lesser" units?

Disclaimer: I haven't felt the need to ramble about the topic for a while, so here's where it ends up.

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I agree, anything that gets folks excited about this stuff, or proves that performance and economy can coexist (where have I heard that before? ) is good.

Hey RH77, now that zero-to-sixty-in-four-seconds and 400-horsepower have been highlighted and I disclaimed my less-than-32MPG comment as "mostly joking," I'll take a moment to point in the opposite direction.

Here is an article from 2006 about a hybrid that gets 50MPG.

And does zero to sixty in four seconds.

And has 350 combined horsepower.

And was built mostly thanks to high school students.

I'm looking forward to Toyota catching up.

Rick

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Old 10-05-2007, 05:54 PM   #13
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Meh - 50mpg is what that engine gets in the VW TDI anyway (just check out the garage)... Not to mention, it's in a lighter and likely more aero package

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Under normal driving conditions, the vehicle will solely be powered by the diesel engine. Therefore, the ultra-capacitor pack stores only enough energy for a few minutes of blazing acceleration.
Although, a diesel + FE hybrid would be pretty sweet


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Originally Posted by Rick Rae View Post
I agree, anything that gets folks excited about this stuff, or proves that performance and economy can coexist (where have I heard that before? ) is good.

Hey RH77, now that zero-to-sixty-in-four-seconds and 400-horsepower have been highlighted and I disclaimed my less-than-32MPG comment as "mostly joking," I'll take a moment to point in the opposite direction.

Here is an article from 2006 about a hybrid that gets 50MPG.

And does zero to sixty in four seconds.

And has 350 combined horsepower.

And was built mostly thanks to high school students.

I'm looking forward to Toyota catching up.

Rick

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Old 10-05-2007, 07:05 PM   #14
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I'm not picking on you...
Would never think you are. In fact we're in agreement on most of this.

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The linked article is guilty of carrying the hybrid stereotype in the first sentence -- it's quoted to paint hybrids as "unexciting and slow".
That doesn't scan, at least with full hybrids. The torque curve for electric motors means a properly-designed electric drive will pretty much always be fastest off the line and capable of smoking anything else in existence. When you match the low-end torque of an electric motor with the torque curve of a regular engine with an eye towards performance... watch out!

Tre's comment fits right in here, too:

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Meh - 50mpg is what that engine gets in the VW TDI anyway...
Makes perfect sense; as I understand it they basically added an electric motor and a bank of supercaps to supply brief off-the-line and general acceleration performance... the rest of the time it's a regular (bio-)diesel setup.

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So, if we were to buy a sports-car, would these hybrids be on our list if they make it to production?
You're asking me? Hey, what do I know; ask any car mag and they'll tell you, I drive a chick car!

I shouldn't even be in this conversation, actually... I'm no car guy. Now my brother, him you could talk to about this stuff. He's building a three door "'34 coupe" more-or-less from scratch. As in the kit-car guys said, "You can't put that steering on that frame," so he ordered it and figured out a way to make it work anyway. Mounted the forward-hinging hood on rails so you can pop it like you'd expect, but if you need to do serious engine work you can crank the hood back or pull it completely off with minimal effort. Electric remote door poppers, custom exhaust, the whole shebang... and all an effort of love. Now him could talk to you about performance.

Me, I still wish I had my dad's Isetta.

Rick
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:35 PM   #15
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Yah, I must be over horsepower. 408 hp seems completely retarded to me. And that body looks completely useless for anything except posing.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:50 PM   #16
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Hey, what do I know; ask any car mag and they'll tell you, I drive a chick car!
Shrug -- image is relative. I don't much care anymore what other drivers think, unless they think I'm wasting fuel, of course

Honestly, the Integra LS Automatic is a chick-car by definition. The GS-R or even a stick LS is more of a "guy" car. Since the paint color is black on your car, you may be out of the woods here.

But, my wife bought the 'Teg new, it's now paid off, and seems to be reliable and efficient I'll drive that!

But, I digress. I'm over owning fast cars now -- been there, spent that. Now, I rent a bunch of base-model Domestics, browse GS for education of new models and concepts, and maybe read a car mag now and then. I couldn't build a model car, let alone a full-scale 1934 replica, if I had all the tools and time. I consider writing about vehicles a fun hobby...especially from the rental experiences.

I was on the Diesel-Hybrid bandwagon for a long time -- the closest I saw to that reality was the Citroen C4 -- no dice yet. It would sell exactly 129 units, but a CNG-Hybrid vehicle sounds pretty cool and low in emissions. If I had the cash and resources, that may be where I would start.

RH77 (also "Rick")
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Old 10-06-2007, 04:04 PM   #17
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Shrug -- image is relative. I don't much care anymore what other drivers think...
Same here. I drive what I enjoy and if someone can't cope with that, it's their problem.

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Since the paint color is black on your car, you may be out of the woods here.
Actually no, my icon's just a very dark night-time shot. The VW's actually sort of a dark green metal-flake:



Hey, at least it's not bright pink with a "Mary Kay" sticker in the rear window.

Rick
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Old 10-06-2007, 04:15 PM   #18
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now if only my HS would be more innovative...
I guess I'LL have to start something
i think all hybrids should be an electric car with a motor recharging the batteries. like the chevy volt, except not having such an ugly car as the Volt. ( or is it not called a hybrid then?)
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