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Old 02-05-2006, 11:07 AM   #1
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Obsessed

Thanks to metrompg for recommending this site. I have been hanging out at greenhybrid.com and at various yahoo Prius formus over the past 2 years. But now that my daily driver is no longer a hybrid, (the wife drives it now), I have been looking for a site where non-hybrid drivers could obsess about mileage without feeling like a second class citizen.

It all started in 1985 when I bought my first new car, an 85 CRX HF. By 1990, I had put 275k miles on the car. I wasn't really obcessed about mileage during those years, b ut I managed 45MPG over those 275k miles without even trying.

What really got me obsessed was when I got the 2004 Prius in January of 2004. Since then I have done lots of experimentation to find the best techniques for extracting every last mile out of each gallon of gas. One mod was to add auxillary batteries and I even tried grid charging at one point. What I learned was that the Prius HSD system is highly optimized and that trying to modify the vehicle in any way was a waste of time and money. After I removed all of the gagetry, I just learned to drive it and had really good results.

But after 18 months, my wife insisted that it was her turn with the Prius. So my 70+ MPG tanks turned into 45MPG tanks for her. But now she is happy and that's all that counts, right?

So that left me with the 1997 Subaru Outback, 2.5L, 4 speed automatic. So her 18 MPG tanks turned into 32 MPG tanks for me. It didn't take long for me to get bored with the Outback.

So I started looking for an affordable daily driver that would be capable of getting great mileage. I looked around for CRX's but didn't find any that I liked. The HF's are hard to find in good condition. I finally ended up with a 1993 Honda del Sol S, 1.5L, 5-Speed with only 42k miles.

My first two tanks have been quite good for winter in Pittsburgh, 50.3 and 51.0 MPG. This compares to 65-67 MPG on the same commute and weather conditions with the Prius. I am struggling without the MPG feedback that the Prius has, so I have installed a vacuum gauge and hacked into the fuel tank level sensor to get a digital readout of the fuel level, which I have mapped and converted to gallons. I have been trying to get my hands on a OZTrip computer which taps into the speed sensor and fuel injector signals to calculate instantaneous and trip MPG's. Unfortunately they are no longer made and no one has one for sale. My next mod will be to tap into the O2 sensor to monitor the voltage output which will tell me if I am running rich, optimized or lean.

I look forward to interesting and valuable input from the members of this site. Hopefully I can return the favor.

Thanks,
Dan
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:21 AM   #2
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Quote:It all started in 1985

Quote:
It all started in 1985 when I bought my first new car, an 85 CRX HF.
1713 pounds of glory!!!

Quote:
My first two tanks have been quite good for winter in Pittsburgh, 50.3 and 51.0 MPG.
I am insabelyt jealous, you need to make a thread about your type of commute and what type of driving techniques you use!

Quote:
I have installed a vacuum gauge and hacked into the fuel tank level sensor to get a digital readout of the fuel level, which I have mapped and converted to gallons. I have been trying to get my hands on a OZTrip computer which taps into the speed sensor and fuel injector signals to calculate instantaneous and trip MPG's. Unfortunately they are no longer made and no one has one for sale. My next mod will be to tap into the O2 sensor to monitor the voltage output which will tell me if I am running rich, optimized or lean.
I am doing the vacuum gauge soon, post of a picture of it and make some sort of thread about how you use it, I wanna know where you mounted it. Also, do some sort of write up on the fuel level stuff, looks like something I wanna do. You're in good company here with trying to make the mpg gauge.

However, don't bother with the stock o2 sensor, it's a piece of ****, it doesn't read correctly and gives terrible afr numbers, and unless you're chipped and tuning you can't do anything about it properly.

Which reminds me, I've got a chipped ecu for your engine for sale,

Good to see you here, how much did you pay for the del slow if I might ask?
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:42 AM   #3
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welcome, dan! glad you

welcome, dan! glad you decided to drop in.

dan e-mailed me from metrompg.com after seeing the page about the Pulse and Glide driving technique on my site.

the folks here on gassavers.org will remember that i used this thread about pulse & glide to start thinking out loud and get a discussion going on the topic after i heard about it.

dan's connection to that topic is significant: the prius (that his wife is now driving) is the car that was used in the record-setting 109.3 MPG mileage marathon. that feat arguably contributed most to popularizing the pulse & glide technique and the "hypermileage" potential of the prius when driven in a very specific and careful manner. of course, dan was also one of the drivers on the marathon team.

so again, welcome. i suspect you'll find the honda-centricity of several of the members here to be useful and entertaining.

- darin (metrompg)
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:46 AM   #4
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Quote:i suspect you'll find

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i suspect you'll find the honda-centricity of several of the members here to be useful and entertaining.
No need to point fingers! If anyone you should blame Honda for making such efficient cars.
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:48 AM   #5
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down boy! remember i've

down boy! remember i've owned 2. we're all on the same side here!
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:08 PM   #6
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Re: Quote:It all started in 1985

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy
Quote:
It all started in 1985 when I bought my first new car, an 85 CRX HF.
1713 pounds of glory!!!

Quote:
My first two tanks have been quite good for winter in Pittsburgh, 50.3 and 51.0 MPG.
I am insabelyt jealous, you need to make a thread about your type of commute and what type of driving techniques you use!

Quote:
I have installed a vacuum gauge and hacked into the fuel tank level sensor to get a digital readout of the fuel level, which I have mapped and converted to gallons. I have been trying to get my hands on a OZTrip computer which taps into the speed sensor and fuel injector signals to calculate instantaneous and trip MPG's. Unfortunately they are no longer made and no one has one for sale. My next mod will be to tap into the O2 sensor to monitor the voltage output which will tell me if I am running rich, optimized or lean.
I am doing the vacuum gauge soon, post of a picture of it and make some sort of thread about how you use it, I wanna know where you mounted it. Also, do some sort of write up on the fuel level stuff, looks like something I wanna do. You're in good company here with trying to make the mpg gauge.

However, don't bother with the stock o2 sensor, it's a piece of ****, it doesn't read correctly and gives terrible afr numbers, and unless you're chipped and tuning you can't do anything about it properly.

Which reminds me, I've got a chipped ecu for your engine for sale,

Good to see you here, how much did you pay for the del slow if I might ask?
Wow, lots of questions! I will try to get some pictures and the writeups that you asked for posted over the next week. I paid $4900 for the del Sol on ebay.

I'm interested in the "chipped ecu" and O2 sensor. Do you have something for me that can help the mileage?

More later, after the game. You know, the Super Bowl. It's pretty intense here in Pittsburgh.

Dan
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:19 PM   #7
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Quote:I'm interested in the

Quote:
I'm interested in the "chipped ecu" and O2 sensor. Do you have something for me that can help the mileage?
Well, chipped ecu means that you can alter the ecus stock programming easily. The wideband o2 sensor is what you use to do this. Since the stock narrowband can't give o2 readings for crap, you use the wideband and controller to monitor your cars o2 readings. You track them, then go into you fuel maps on the chipped ecu and go like, I wanna run 16:1 here so I'll delete such and such amount a fuel. A perfect tune.

You can also control timing with it so you can squeeze out more free power, as well as create things like shift lights and lots of other neat things. Very cool stuff I think.

If you're interested in a d15z1 (eg civic vx) head with vtec-e I know a guy selling one for mad cheap.
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:33 PM   #8
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Re: Quote:I'm interested in the

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy
Well, chipped ecu means that you can alter the ecus stock programming easily. The wideband o2 sensor is what you use to do this. Since the stock narrowband can't give o2 readings for crap, you use the wideband and controller to monitor your cars o2 readings. You track them, then go into you fuel maps on the chipped ecu and go like, I wanna run 16:1 here so I'll delete such and such amount a fuel. A perfect tune.

You can also control timing with it so you can squeeze out more free power, as well as create things like shift lights and lots of other neat things. Very cool stuff I think.

If you're interested in a d15z1 (eg civic vx) head with vtec-e I know a guy selling one for mad cheap.
A chipped ecu sounds like fun. So I get one, from you? And I get a wideband O2 sensor, from where? Then I install them. Easy enough I guess. But how do I monitor and talk to the ecu to alter fuel maps?

I assume that the d15z1 is a straight head swap? What are the benefits?

And, I guess I need an image hosting service to post my pics. Can you recommend one?

Dan


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Old 02-05-2006, 12:39 PM   #9
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Quote:A chipped ecu sounds

Quote:
A chipped ecu sounds like fun. So I get one, from you?
If you are so inclined.

Quote:
And I get a wideband O2 sensor, from where?
Used on honda-tech or new on ebay. lc-1 is the cheapest.

Quote:
Easy enough I guess. But how do I monitor and talk to the ecu to alter fuel maps?
Recieving from the ecu is as easy as hooking up a 25 dollar cell phone cable, talking you need to burn new chips, which is 66 dollars for a chip burner.

Quote:
I assume that the d15z1 is a straight head swap? What are the benefits?
Straight swap but you need to add vtec. Benefits are that the z1 is weaker, but not only that, under 3k rpms is runs on 12 valves only and does this cool learn burn stuff for awesome mileage. The mileage numbers from the epas are like 30-40% better than the S got.

Quote:
And, I guess I need an image hosting service to post my pics. Can you recommend one?
www.theimagehosting.com
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Old 02-05-2006, 01:35 PM   #10
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Re: Quote:A chipped ecu sounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy
Quote:
I assume that the d15z1 is a straight head swap? What are the benefits?
Straight swap but you need to add vtec. Benefits are that the z1 is weaker, but not only that, under 3k rpms is runs on 12 valves only and does this cool learn burn stuff for awesome mileage. The mileage numbers from the epas are like 30-40% better than the S got.
Lean burn would be cool, but how does one add vtec? How much does the guy want for the head? Where is he located?
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