Plasma Coating for better MPG

[Davo53209]

Lately, I've been contemplating the process of plasma coating the internal components of an engine for increased fuel efficiency.

For those of you who are not familar with the process, it involves a rotating plasma torch used to deposit a ceramic coating onto the internal components of an engine, which in turn reduces heat & friction up to 30%. The by-product being a more durable engine with increased fuel effiencey. This process is not new. It's been used on jet engines, race cars and yes even your garden variety automobile.

http://www.iom3.org/divisions/automo.../sec3pres2.pdf

At this point, I'd like to know if there are more people who are more familiar with the process, whereas I'd be interested to know if it's worth the time and money to invest. My theory is that one you may be able to take a fuel efficient engine such as a 3-cylinder Geo Metro, or 4-cylinder CRX-HF, while improving the fuel economy evermore so. The question is how much of an estimated increase should be expected in Miles per Gallon.

Thank You.

[thisisntjared]

interesting idea. people get ceramic coating done to their pistons all the time. i wonder what the benefits to fuel economy would be though.

uh, your welcome?

[omgwtfbyobbq]

There were some guys interested in those for the older IDI (indirect injection) diesels, since all the area associated with the prechamber allowed a decent amount of heat to get soaked up by the head, which doesn't happen in a TDI because they're direct injection. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the oil cooled Elsbett WVO/diesel engine supposedly pulled insane mileage figures in a ho-hum Mercedes, something like 50+mpg. I'm guessing that coating the head may result in a 5-10% efficiency increase... Not worth it until you've done all the other stuff imo.

[GasSavers_TomO]

Plasma coating sounds expensive. I guess the cost would determine the actual benefit for me. Personally I want to experiment with Cyro treating an engine like this guy HERE. The comments after the story are quite funny (they go off on a tangent about NO2), but there is some helpful insight in some of the comments after that argument.

With over 300K miles on my VX motor, I know it's not going to last forever so I'm going to try and snatch up another D15Z1 and will Cryo as much of it as I can. I'm hoping to do the pistons, rings, rods, crankshaft, block, head, valves, valve guides and camshaft, basically the enitire motor. And will see how well it does FE wise. It's not expensive at all to cryo things.

Here's a list of Cryo sites I've found so far:
http://www.cryoplus.com/
http://www.cryogenicsinternational.com/
http://www.metal-wear.com/
http://www.300below.com/
http://www.frozenrotors.com
http://www.frozensolid.co.uk/
http://alpinecryo.com/
http://www.nitrofreeze.com/

I figure that if it doesn't increase FE noticeably, at least the parts will last a long time.

[thisisntjared]

hmm... there is an idea. coating the ports of the head, both intake and exhaust.

[JanGeo]

I had the transmission in my BMW 1000cc motorcycle teflon impregnated and that made a big difference 60mpg up from 40-50mpg - my brother did his Norton 750 Commando entirely pistons rings crank rods tranny chains and was getting 130mph out of it and had more throttle to go - normally they don't go that fast at all - was getting 70-75mpg.

[GasSavers_DaX]

We do plasma coating where I work (jet engine repair facility) for dimensional restoration of components. There are MANY types of plasma powders available...do you know which type of powder is being used? Is there final machining required?

[Davo53209]

Great idea TomO, this was one option that I was not aware of. In addition to your post, I also read the links that you had posted. I'd be interested to know how much the process cost. What would you an estimated figure would be.

[Davo53209]

Teflon impregnating internal componets is another interesting option. Here too, I must inquire upon the estimated cost. Please let me know...Thanks Jan Geo.

[Davo53209]

Originally Posted by DaX

We do plasma coating where I work (jet engine repair facility) for dimensional restoration of components. There are MANY types of plasma powders available...do you know which type of powder is being used? Is there final machining required?

I recently found a link that addresses those specific questions. I believe that it mentions two types of plasma poweder, so I will make it a point to find it for everyone. Additionally, it mentions that Jet mechanics are the most qualified for this sort of application. I'd be interested to know what your experience has taught about the benefits of plasma coating.