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Old 11-09-2007, 05:06 AM   #11
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I agree with rh77, your gonna get razzed with that giant truck But welcome to the site! When I joined I started with a 2005 Civic Si that was getting below EPA but now I've got a FE friendly Saturn. Do what you must to avoid paying for gas, that's the important part!
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:01 PM   #12
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Well my thought is this: I really doesn't matter how high gas prices go it is not going to force people into small fuel efficient cars. There are people that want or need bigger vehicles and will not change. By telling them they are wasteful and destroying the environment is going to do anything but be more against that view.

A better way would be to encourage people to change their driving habits. That is reachable goal for everyone with some practice. If everyone was getting at least the EPA highway rating for whatever they drive, the savings of fuel and its effect on the environment would have a larger impact then taking a few people out of their SUV's and putting them into a Geo Metro.

I signed up to this Forum to become a better more efficient driver not to be told that I am a wasteful monster driving a beast and not caring about the environment. I would bet that I am getting better MPG due to my driving then a lot of people out there driving their more fuel efficient vehicles.

I'm done now, and off the soap box I step......
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by theclencher View Post
get something else for the daily commute

yes it will pay for itself
I have to agree here. If you own a large truck because you need it for work or other towing/hauling, it is best to buy something else for routine driving. A VX would not be a bad idea. But ANY small car would be good. I myself think that ANY 1988-1995 Civic would be a good choice. They are pretty cheap. They are VERY durable. And if you know how to wrench, they are just about the easiest cars to work on that you are going to find. Furthermore, cheap parts are in abundant supply at just about ANY self-serve junkyard. In other words, they are cheap to buy and cheap to keep running.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:31 AM   #14
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I did some calculations and created a spreadsheet for what it would cost to own a second vehicle for commuting. I have attached a screenshot of the results for the following variables:

Gas cost 4
Miles driven annually 15000
Registration cost (yearly) 50
Inspection cost (yearly) 50
Liability cost for small car (yearly) 500
Yearly cost to upkeep new car 300
Cost of gas miser 3000

Adding a second vehicle that gets 50MPG to commute in and keep the 18MPG vehicle for other uses these are the results:

Savings 1233.33
Years to break even 2.43
Additional miles on car after breaking even 36486.49


Here is what you get with 3 dollars a gallon(assuming it doesn't go up in the next year)

Savings 700
Years to break even 4.29
Additional miles on car after breaking even 64285.71


Any comments on these numbers? Have I represented the situation accurately? Is there anything I missed that I should add in?

I have also attached the spreadsheet used to get these values if you would like to review my calculations or use it for anything else.

In conclusion I don't see it as useful to have a second vehicle as I would be afraid of something happening to it causing me to lose my investment and having to start over from scratch on the road to breaking even.

On the other hand, if I was worried about putting miles on my current vehicle then that would weigh in pretty heavily. But for pure cost-wise I don't think it makes sense.
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:50 PM   #15
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On the other hand, if I was worried about putting miles on my current vehicle then that would weigh in pretty heavily. But for pure cost-wise I don't think it makes sense.
I figured it was assumed any miles put on this vehicle wouldn't be put on the other.

How much does liability cost in your area clencher? I realize I am young but figured half what I pay would be about right.

I did 15k as that would put it on the deep side for paying back quicker. Anyone with a google account can view/edit this spreadsheet HERE. I edited it up a bit lower making the car cost 600 bucks and insurance down to 33 a month along with yearly expenses of 200 and it will still take 2.7 years to pay back.

Gah, too many numbers for a sentence. Of course this is somewhat relative as I certainly don't know how long my car will go before suddenly breaking beyond feasible repair.

EDIT: Forgot, changed the mileage to 10k. Which is actually more than I travel to work and back. This puts the car being "payed off" in less than a year. So a 600 dollar car with 200 dollar a year in maintenance will net some returns. I don't see that as feasible though, atleast not without considerable time under the hood myself doing repairs when I could be doing something else with my time. (time=money, the question is how much money is each individuals time worth. Different for each person)
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:58 PM   #16
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Then again, you could probably buy a more efficient car for MUCH less that $3000. Especially if you can make repairs on your own. For instance, Cvics often self-destruct because someone never replaced the timing belt. Such cars an be picked up sometimes for a few hundred dollars. If you can make the repair, you can have yourself a car that will run well and e fairly trouble-free for some time. Of course, when it comes to repairs, your attitude toward this makes a difference as well. For some people, it is a hobby. And for others, it is either a chore or something they have to pay someone else BIG bucks to do. So this makes a difference as well. Clearly, there are lots of factors to consider.
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:56 PM   #17
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Rentals

What about the cost of having a higher-mileage commuter, and renting a larger vehicle when necessary. Works for me...

RH77
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Titan View Post
Well my thought is this: I really doesn't matter how high gas prices go it is not going to force people into small fuel efficient cars.
I disagree. HOWEVER, short term spikes truly won't do much - it's the long term trends that will. Just look at the cost of fuel in EU and the popularity of high FE vehicles It will just take time

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Titan View Post
There are people that want or need bigger vehicles and will not change. By telling them they are wasteful and destroying the environment is going to do anything but be more against that view.
That's the reason it will take high prices for a long time. Long term cuts at the bottom line will cause people to re-evaluate "need" - and those that really do need it, will keep it. Those that look at their situation and say "maybe I don't need this" will change. The higher the price, the more change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Titan View Post
A better way would be to encourage people to change their driving habits. That is reachable goal for everyone with some practice. If everyone was getting at least the EPA highway rating for whatever they drive, the savings of fuel and its effect on the environment would have a larger impact then taking a few people out of their SUV's and putting them into a Geo Metro.
I completely agree - however, taking a 20mpg SUV driver, and moving them into a 40mpg vehicle is much more effective (consumption and emissions wise) than going from 20 to 25mpg. But considering the huge amount of 20mpg vehicles out there that are not currently moving to a smaller vehicle, there's great things to be had from scraping a few more miles out of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Titan View Post
I signed up to this Forum to become a better more efficient driver not to be told that I am a wasteful monster driving a beast and not caring about the environment. I would bet that I am getting better MPG due to my driving then a lot of people out there driving their more fuel efficient vehicles.

I'm done now, and off the soap box I step......
Don't worry, they'll get over it shortly. Just have some thick skin for now and in the meantime learn as much as you can and, at the very least, consider some of the advice being offered
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