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Old 11-14-2007, 09:42 PM   #31
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Here's their story on Neil Young delivering his 1960 Lincoln for John to do an electric/hybrid transplant:

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/11320116.html
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:53 PM   #32
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zpiloto -

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This one probably won't pass emission standards today.
Ha ha (no, not HAHA), that's what I thought of when people started talking jet engines.

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Old 11-15-2007, 05:28 AM   #33
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KSN ran the story on Neil Young's car again this morning...now they say it's a 1959 Lincoln, not a 1960. I should have known by the headlights...didn't Cadillac do something like that on their `59s?
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:03 AM   #34
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Well...even if you could get past the "safety/liability" issues of a high-speed turbine in an automobile (think shrapnel), I am not sure how you would get it to pass the current and future emissions standards.

Now...if you could get it to pass emissions, make it safe enough, make it small enough, and make it cheaply enough...then you might have a winner.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:47 AM   #35
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The shrapnel thing seems to be one of the major problems with compressed air power.....keeping the high pressure storage tanks from becoming IEDs in an accident.

I see the guys in Europe are using carbon-fiber, which they claim will rupture, but not explode...
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:04 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by StorminMatt View Post
Efficient gas turbines all have two things in common: axial flow design and high pressure ratio (30:1 to 40:1).
And a reheat stage
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Old 11-15-2007, 02:05 PM   #37
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You can make a turbine even more efficient with a special type of water injection.

Most of you don't think vertexes work.
http://pesn.com/2005/04/25/6900086_J...Vortex_Turbine
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:25 PM   #38
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And a reheat stage
Not on a simple gas turbine cycle! On a simple cycle, a reheat stage actually DECREASES efficiency. It will increase power output. But much of this energy will be lost in the form of a REALLY hot exhaust. On the other hand, efficiency can be improved by a reheat stage IF the reheat is used in conjunction with a recuperator (regenerator). A regenerator uses the heat of the exhaust to preheat the air coming out of the compressor before the combustor. So much of this heat is put back into the cycle.

Because a recuperator puts exhaust heat back into the cycle, a recuperator can sometimes also improve the efficiency of a simple cycle. But note the word 'sometimes'. Specifically, a recuperator improves efficiency most in gas turbines of low pressure ratio. But as pressure ratio increases, the compressor outlet temperature INCREASES while the exhaust temperature DECREASES. And as pressure ratio is increased, a point is eventually reached where the compressor outlet is hotter than the exhaust. When this is the case, a recuperator will obviously decrease efficiency.

With this said, a recuperator would DEFINITELY be a good idea on the kind of low pressure ratio, centrifugal gas turbine that would ever likely be used in a road vehicle. On the other hand, a recuperator increases the physical size of the turbine and increases pumping losses. So ultimately, a high pressure ratio, non-recuperated turbine is a better idea. However, such a turbine is not likely to be cost-effective.

On the other hand, I doubt gas turbines will ever make it into mainstream use on road vehicles. Fuel cells appear to have MUCH more promise in terms of efficiency, cost, and practicality.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StorminMatt View Post
Not on a simple gas turbine cycle! On a simple cycle, a reheat stage actually DECREASES efficiency. It will increase power output. But much of this energy will be lost in the form of a REALLY hot exhaust. On the other hand, efficiency can be improved by a reheat stage IF the reheat is used in conjunction with a recuperator (regenerator). A regenerator uses the heat of the exhaust to preheat the air coming out of the compressor before the combustor. So much of this heat is put back into the cycle.
.

Yeah, you're totally right -- that's not the first time I've used reheat rather than recuperate Eventually it'll be pounded in reheat - after burn; recuperate - loop exchange....
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Old 11-17-2007, 12:07 AM   #40
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Yeah, you're totally right -- that's not the first time I've used reheat rather than recuperate Eventually it'll be pounded in reheat - after burn; recuperate - loop exchange....
Just remember, though, that the benefits of a recuperator DECREASE with increasing pressure ratio. And eventually, a reuperator starts to DECREASE efficiency.

One more thing that I should mention is that intercooling during compression increases efficiency. It reduces the power requirement of the compression process. Yes, extra fuel needs to be burned to make up for the lower heating of the air by the compressor. But the decrease in compressor work is equal to the increased heat input requirement. And because no engine is 100% efficient, getting a given increase in power output at the cost of only the same increase in heat input increases efficiency.
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